The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #114513   Message #2445200
Posted By: Big Mick
19-Sep-08 - 01:23 PM
Thread Name: blame CAPITALISM & jetison it!!
Subject: RE: blame CAPITALISM & jetison it!!
Well, Ernest, for starters, Socialism is not a political system. It is an economic system. Just because someone usurps the name does not make them that same thing. There are many examples around the world of "Labor/Labour" parties that have very little of the working classes interests at heart. The USSR, after it's various and sundry revolutions, ended up with a system it called communism in which the State owned everything. If we are to call Socialism and Communism of the same ilk, well..... they may be related but they are not the same thing. Communism is on the far edge of the spectrum and, once again, there are many variants to the system. I would have to spend a lot of time trying to get you to understand the difference between communism as practice by Lenin, Marx, and Trotsky. All had a different take on the practice. And then, I would have to get you to understand that the folks that ran the USSR took the pure ideals and perverted them with a totalitarianism and, in the case of Stalin, a ruthless cult of personality, till in the end the grand experiment failed. But Socialism is not necessarily communism, other than embracing the idea that some things in a society can be done better if they are done for the betterment of all peoples instead of the privileged few that were lucky enough to be born to wealth, or hit on something that benefitted them. I am not trying to tell you that we should kill individual initiative, but if you can't see the evils of the laissez-faire style of capitlism that we are currently using, then you are blind. Socialist ideas are rampant in our society, and embraced by most folks that just don't realize they are socialist ideas. These are the programs designed to share the burdens that befall some among all so that it is easier for all of us. Examples would be Social Security, Medicare, Unemployment compensation, and Disability provisions of various State laws. Another concept that is really a Socialist concept is the regulatory acts that keep our food safe, our environment safe, our workplaces safe, and provide fair opportunities for folks to organize for better wages, hours of work, and conditions of work. The Interstate Highway system was a socialist concept. I could go on and on.

Examples around the world of functioning governments that have many socialist programs are Great Britain, Ireland, Sweden, Netherlands, in fact, most of the EU, Canada, and on and on.

Someone further up the thread pointed out that in the US we equate Socialism with Totalitarianism. That is due to the affliction we have in this country that I have named "Politics by cliche'". It is characterized among countrymen/women of mine who are intellectually lazy, and whose lifestyles have become so soft from the fabulous success of the unions in creating a middle class, that they have lost the desire to dig into a problem, preferring instead to use cliche'd statements to answer anything. It results in posts like yours that are incorrect on so many levels. We fail in the desire to understand the intricacies and the distinctions, and we end up making political decisions based on who hires the best media wizard to give us our views in 90 second commercials. Hence you still have people arguing whether Obama is a Moslem or not. In 2004 it was what allowed the Swift Boat Veterans to move the campaign from a discussion of issues to the besmirching of the reputation of a genuine hero, and even John McCain called that shameful. And this malaise is what causes people to suspend their self interests economically and politically as soon as someone can attach some label such as "tax and spend liberal" or "conservative nazi". And it is what causes you to mischaracterize what socialism is, and the positive things it has already done for you and yours, and prevents you from seeing that the wealthiest folks in this country are waging war on your middle class ass to see if they can get all the money instead of you and your grandkids having a decent life.

Look around, Ernest. Drop your cliche'd and preconceived notions. Figure out what things really mean. Be willing to acknowledge the good aspects, as well as the bad aspects, of the various systems. Who knows, we just might get somewhere. Being a progressive means one is trying to constantly fine tune the beast. It is possible. But not as long as otherwise good folks like yourself continue to hold onto to tired, trite, and unfactual perceptions of what something is.

All the best,

Mick