The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #110424   Message #2461890
Posted By: WalkaboutsVerse
10-Oct-08 - 06:44 AM
Thread Name: England's National Musical-Instrument?
Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
Ruth - may I refer you to the "Pop Goes the Folk Singer" thread for a "body of evidence", and I agree with your later post, reposted below, but add that I've put "mostly" NOT "ONLY" on my website.
"Yes, there is a strong tradition of solo, unaccompanied singing in England, but that doesn't mean that it was the ONLY tradition. Some of the living traditions we still have, for instance, would suggest otherwise. The Copper family sing harmonies, and their tradition goes back at least eight generations. Sheffield Carols, still sung each year in the village pubs, contain strong, spontaneous harmonies. And though I've never been to any shepherd's or hunt meets to hear any singing, I'd be interested to know whether people sing in harmony - I know that Will Noble and John Cocking, for instance, do."

Woody - I repeat once again my questions...

perhaps you'll please do me the courtesy of actually answering my questions properly, with some of the attention and level of detail you must have shown to acquire your degree.

(1) - what you're saying is that in England we should only perform "good English music"? (AND ENJOY LISTENIG TO VISITORS PERFORM THEIRS)

(2) - If the answer to (1) is yes, does that mean that you think we should take some kind of action to preserve the purity of the English music that exists - as alluded to in your perform your own rule?

(3) - If the answer to both 1 & 2 is yes, what methods would you propose would be used to achieve and enforce this? (I HAVE ANSWERED 2 & 3 ABOVE)

(4) - Given your documented attempts to live a more "authentic" English existence (pottage etc) do you think that there should be a wider effort to revive this English culture? (YES)

Volgadon - traditionally congregations in England generally sing just the tune; while the organist (nowadays) will generally play all four lines on the score (and, yes, Eliza, other instruments have been involved in this); and, occasionally, trained boy (and nowadays girl) sopranos sing some bits above it all - descant lines, I think they are called. RVW - collected folk TUNES and ADDED these extra lines/harmonies HIMSELF. (Having said all that, I think just the tune sung and/or played well sounds great - with BOTH our hymns and our folk songs.) Oh, and we do try and sing hymns a bit more sweet/Sunday best voice.

Volgadon again - "Here are some words by Jabotinsky which I rather like. They are equally aprropriate for Wav's grand scheme of a world-regulationism.

For me, as for all lovers of freedom, an ant-heap or a colony of bees cannot serve as an example for humanity. A collectivist* regime, which subjugates the individual personality, is no better than a regime of feudalism or autocracy. The 'equality' and 'justice' of such a regime will be based on organized production, distribution and consumption - all to be coordinated by the government; and if somebody does not conform to this organization, the heavy hand of that government will come down on him, or he may be hanged from a tree - in the name of equality and justice. No: Bakunin was a thousand times right when he told Marx that if the workers succeed in establishing the new regime that Marx preached, it would be no less tyrannical than it's predecessor...
All individuals are equal; and if, in the march towards prgress, some falter by the way, society must help raise them up...
I am not an anarchist: I admit the need for state power. But the difference between me and you is that to me that power is in the nature of a supreme court, standing above parties, groups and personlaities, and not interefering in the economic, public and private life of the citizen's as long as nobody's freedom is infringed - while to you that power is the stick of the policemen, and that stick differs from other sticks in that it will be yielded by you...
To you the end justifies the means, and so everything is permitted."

Me, from the above link -

"Within the broader music industry, and beyond, what some get for their hour's work, compared with others, is ridiculous and inhumane; hence, many relatively competent musicians within the folk-scene are really struggling to make ends meet; so, if we like fair competition, we don't like capitalism. A better way, as I've suggested in verse, is to accept that humans are competitive, and have strong regulations (partly via nationalisation) to make that competition as fair as possible – whilst also providing "safety-net" support."

"the only reason people sang unaccompanied was because they were subjugated in ignorance and poverty, indentured in servile drudgery to a heartless aristocracy who no doubt thought it was all such jolly good traditional fun." (IB)...or, like me, they genuinely enjoyed a good voice singing an E. trad unaccompanied, as nearly everyone did at the Durham Folk Party singaround, where we last met.

Joseph and Paul - "Business is glorified theft" (Steinbeck, Grapes of Wrath).

Ironic that CB should be the one to remember our National Poetry Day.

Did I read WAV correctly? That he's advocating that when figure skaters chose the music to which they choreograph their programs, they should chose the folk music of their own countries?

"Most figure skaters select the music they skate to from the vast range of classical music. For obvious reasons, ballet music (Tchaikovsky, Adolphe Adam, Minkus, Ravel, Glière, etc.) tends to predominate. Sometimes opera overtures are used. Rossini overtures are particularly favored for their tendency to start moderato and build up speed. Very exciting for a skating program. One of my sister's programs, which was well-received by audiences and skating judges alike, was choreographed to an orchestral (no singing) medley of music from Verdi's opera, La Traviata.
I can't wait to see some skater (English, of course) try to do a program to WAV singing "Cob a Coaling." (Don Firth)...if you don't believe my above post on this, Don, please check the ISU website (as Volgadon seems to have done).