Dave Mc - I know what you're talking about. There's a club near me where many of the "regulars" I( can't call them "residents") are, on the whole, absolute tosh. In the end, I decided to not go there and take me interest elsewhere. However, there should be places where newbies can start - if they don't improve, then so be it - but let's not diminish the opportunity.

By "tosh", I mean things like: (a) bringing the music when they know they only have two songs to perform - not taking the trouble to learn them beforehand; (b) singing inappropriate material - Abba at a folk club anyone?; (c) thinking they're great when they're absolute crap - no self-critical sense...; (d) add your own. A penance, to be sure - but where do you draw the line.