I can't remember, Bryan, sorry:-( It was on one such discussion when I mentioned that I told people to expect anything on a singers that someone told me I was not doing a good job of selling the club! If I could remember I would tell you but it is too far back to look up now.

You have not said where and how I misrepresented you yet. I suppose paying a compliment that went a little far is misrepresentation to a certain extent but surely that is not what you are refering to is it?

Jim - You are right. To perform properly you do need to achieve a minimum standard and if all performances at folk clubs fell below that then I would be 100% behind you in saying that poor performance will kill off folk clubs. However (there's always one of them isn't there:-) ) There is only a very small proportion of people at our club who fall below it. I can honestly say that amongst the dozens and dozens of people who have sung at our club only two have fallen well under. There are a number who will also sing self penned angst driven dirges and other stuff that is far from my cup of Earl Grey but they do, at least, perform them well.

Funny thing is that, of late, we have been getting more people at singers nights than on some of the guest nights! And I would say that over half the audience changes between the two. I would suspect that we get far more Critics Group on guest nights and far more Muriels on singers but I have not yet confirmed that theory!

Anyway, point is, I find myself in the position of agreeing with you entirely about the minimum standard but running a club that does offer a bit of flexibility for the untrained. Maybe our singers nights are more like workshops? They are certainly very informal and people can either 'Take the stage' (Well, empty bit of carpet) or perform from where they sit. We chat a lot and have offered help and advice to a number of people. Some ignore it. Some improve. None have, as yet, taken offense. Well, maybe the guy with the electric guitar turned up too loud took the huff when told to turn it down. But even he returned a couple of weeks later:-)

At the end of the day some clubs run for years. New ones open. Old ones close. All for different reasons. The standard of performance may have a lot to do with it but the style of the club, it's organisers and guests play a part. More importantly, it's audience decide it's fate in the end.

Cheers

Dave