>>Taking Jim Carroll's argument, we should ban all amateur productions such as school plays and concerts, amateur dramatic societies, village pantos, carol singers etc. because they may not come up to his exacting standards. What a sad world that would be!

I'm with Silas. That's a really silly post.

There has been no hint of banning anywhere. Re-read the bits somewhere up the thread about amateur dramatics.

Jim has never defined his benchmark of acceptability - perhaps he could point one day to two borderline performances on youtube or somewhere and at which point we might go - goodness me Jim you're right - or goodness me Jim you set the level too high.

I don't think he is setting it as high as you think.

A friend of mine leant me a tape of the Critics Group singing and it's good competent stuff. Ewan MacColl I think is an excellent singer when he doesn't sing boring anti Margaret Thatcher songs (they were probably of their time as Antiquities but sure are pretty naff as a listening experience now). But it wasn't fantastically wonderful - there is a young man who comes and sings to us sometimes when he's in the area who sings as well as any of the singers on that tape to my ears singing many of the same songs.

I'm not sure if my view has shifted or not over the course of this thread. I'm more aware of some things and probably more of a tart than I was. People should listen and follow the singer or player not do their own version. Spot on. Second week running people wanted to sing their version of a song rather than fit in with the singer. Last week I had fun doing a rewind rap version of "If wishes were fishes" to cater for the early ones and the late ones who were happily singing away in a different time and this week I couldn't be bothered to keep singing a song which noone wanted to listen to (they were happy singing their own version)

People should have better manners. And should listen to each other.

And in my defence I only moved my friend Mike up a tone because he was singing the song too low and he didn't mind and everyone thought the key change was pretty seamless and next time he ought really to do it in Bb rather than G which he has written down on his sheet (if he had one). :) Sometimes we do it to help rather than for our egos