Spot on, Will. The other thing is, Rafflesbear, I have stated quite categoricaly that Swinton have NO policy. Neither do we have a comittee or any internal politics. I can't speak for Chrlton or the Lewes Arms but our club is purely for music and enjoyment. We confine the arguments to Mudcat:-)

Jim, I am coming round more and more. I started off thinking that there is a need for people of no real talent to 'have a go'. But I am starting to think - why should it be in folk clubs? What can we do for them instead? If we are to raise the bar and get clubs to a standard that everyone can enjoy can we provie an alternative for the 'non improvers'

This is why I keep asking the question, which Bryan is so steadfastly ignoring (Nice to know I have that kind of power btw:-) ) What do we do with the non-impovers? Is there something we can to for those who just want to sing without improving, while ensuring we keep standards up?

And I think we are now in the section 20 - 1000 pots just around teh corner:-)

Cheers

DeG