Anybody who's ever tried to sing and got up in front of an audience and made a bloody mess of it knows that you're not enjoying it when you're making a balls of it, but you are enjoying it when it's working

But there has to be somewhere that people can make a balls of it. That's the problem (I'm reading this thread as a spinoff from that other on about folk blubs dying).

There's no way I'm ever going to sing like Nic Jones, say. My voice isn't strong enough or interesting enough, my control isn't brilliant and the range is a bit restricted. Consequently I don't sing much when sober. (I'm not bad at remembering the words though).

Perhaps I play some instruments better than some others when sober, but that's true of almost everyone. Whatever you do, there's always someone better than you and someone worse.

It's possible that folk clubs have become TOO tolerant, and don't challenge people to go on to the next level of achievement. But how to do that and stay on speaking terms? Should we be a bit more like the Glasgow Empire?

Mike and Bernie Winters started with a bang as Mike dashed onstage playing an upbeat number on his clarinet. After a couple of minutes Bernie's face peeked through the centre curtains with that silly leer. A shout from the audience brought the cry, "Christ - there's two of 'em!"