This debate, interesting tho it is, will go on for ever. Nowt wrong wi that tho.

I have some sympathy with your mates in a way Faye, with their first encounter of a folk club.

Remember someone once saying that the first time you go fishing, if you don't catch a wopper and instead catch nowt (especially if it's raining) you probably won't go agin.

I'm 57 and have bin to all kinds of gigs (even saw Hendrix in Manchester on the same bill as the Floyd and Nice) but usually when i've bin to folk club night where there's a booked guest on, the organiser will start off with a couple of 'residents' who they know to be quite good and leave poeple, like meself, for the singarounds which i think is probably fair. A lot of now famous acts on the scene started at 'singarounds'.

I really feel that a first 'bad' experience shouldn't stop em going agin tho; maybe try a few different clubs. They're not all the same.

At the end of the day, i think it's about taste and tolerance.

Went to the 'Frost & Fire' Waterson/Carthy gig in Bury last week and as experienced as they are they still fluffed a couple of things, got a bit out of sync with each other at times and used reminder sheets on music stands but the evening was still fantastic !!