The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #116987 Message #2518074
Posted By: Teribus
17-Dec-08 - 01:46 PM
Thread Name: BS: Bush Dodges Shoe In Iraq....
Subject: RE: BS: Bush Dodges Shoe In Iraq....
Very good point Big Al, well put, pity Amos couldn't respond to it.
Well then Amos, let's take a look:
"You once again completely ignore what changed in Iraq between 1998 and 2002."
OK Amos what did happen in Iraq between 1998 and 2002. Of course it depends exactly when the period starts and when it finishes. Let's take it from the time in February 1998 when Iraq was identified as posing a threat and Bill Clinton revealed this to the assembled Congress on the 17th of that month until the good Dr. Hans Blix arrived with UNMOVIC in December 2002. So throughout the perod defined by Amos these are the changes:
- Saddam continued to run the "Oil for Food" Scam with bought off UN officials and smuggled out oil to the tune of some $2 billion a year - Correct so far Amos??
- As the oil was smuggled out, Saddam smuggled in 384 rocket motors that were part of a proscribed missile development programme. This programme was detected by British Intelligence and uncovered by UNMOVIC - Correct again Amos??
- Made every attempt to convince his neighbours in the region that Iraq did indeed still posses both WMD weapons, delivery systems and manufacturing facilities
- Built Presidential Palaces (17 off) one the size of Washington DC and refused access to UNSCOM Inspection teams. At the same time throughout 1998 he ran rings round UNSCOM's efforts and baulked them at every turn. This was in direct contravention of the Safwan cease-fire Accord as detailed in UN Security Council Resolution 687
- Murdered some 602 Kuwaiti nationals that he had had abducted from Kuwait in 1991 and who for very good reasons he could not release and repatriate as he was required to do.
- Made purchases, or attempted to make purchases that indicated that he had not only chemical and biological WMD programmes running but that he had also revived his nuclear weapons programme. Nothing to do with "yellow cake" from Niger Amos, more to do with medical scanners from Germany and those aluminium tubes which fed the lie. All part of Saddam's deception - Still correct Amos??
- Entered into oil deals with Russia targeted at arms and command and communications systems that would make it harder for the US to detect. Also involved getting his old trading partners Russia, China and France to see what they could do about getting sanctions lifted.
- Ordered increased "painting" of US and UK aircraft patrolling the Northern and Southern "No-Fly" Zones by Iraqi Integrated Air Defence Radars.
- Celebrated and publically applauded the attacks on the US mainland on 11th September, 2001.
- Allowed Zarqawi to be treated for his war wounds obtained in Afghanistan in an Iraqi medical facility run by one of Saddam's sons also allowed to remain in Iraq to recuperate.
- At the same time fleeing from Afghanistan we had an associate of Osama bin Laden, one Mullah Krekar of Answr Al-Islam, who Saddam allowed to set up shop in a valley with seven villages up in Kurdistan located just south of the boundary of the Northern "No-Fly" Zone. What Saddam wanted Krekar to do was cause trouble between the Shiia and Sunni Kurds so that Saddam would have a legitimate reason to send his army in to pacify the area - didn't work, the Kurds saw it coming and basically ignored Krekar, who knew he was being used and didn't really trust Saddam.
- Sponsored suicide bomb attacks in Israel by Palestinians. I believe the going rate was $25,000 to the bombers family as a lump sum payment and a pension for life.
Have I missed anything out there Amos??
One thing we do know is that out of that period UNSCOM's Inspectors were withdrawn and from that point forward, until after the invasion of March 2003, the only concrete information relating to WMD in Iraq was the UNSCOM and IAEA Reports to the UN Security Council delivered in January 1999 - That report stating what UNSCOM and the IAEA believed Iraq may have still possessed in terms of WMD weapons, delivery systems and precursor chemicals forms the basis for all intelligence assessments up until the Iraqi declaration made in response to UN security Council Resolution 1441 on the 15th December 2002, two of the Inspectors who signed off on the UNSCOM report of January 1999 were Scott Ritter and Hans Blix.
"It would be pure-dee awful to discover that Saddam's Iraq had actually disassembled their WMD programs, even while he was boasting and posturing about his military power, wouldn't it, now?"
Unless that destruction of WMD and WMD programmes could be documented and verified by UNSCOM it would be immaterial. The doubt would still remain, after all Amos, nobody with a whit of common-sense would take Saddam Hussein's word for it would they??
"It would be interesting to find out why he never unleashed his WMD on the invaders of Gulf 1 or the Bush Brigades and never defended his regime with anything more powerful than a conventional artillery shell, n'est-ce pas? What was he thinking???"
Well Amos, he did use WMD during the Iran/Iraq War, of that there is no doubt. Now why did he not use Chemical and Biological weapons against UN Forces during "Desert Storm"?? I can immediately think of two very good reasons related to his prospective opponents and a third relating to Saddam's relationship with his own Army:
1. Unlike Iran, his opponents in "Desert Storm", were primarily military formations equipped and trained to fight against a far deadlier foe in Europe who also had Chemical and Biological weapons. The US and UK Forces arraigned against him could survive and fight in a chemical and biological environment Iraq's Army could not.
2. His former Soviet buddies had probably advised Saddam against using Chemical or Biological weapons against US Forces as long, long ago Amos, in the 1950's during the "Cold War", the Soviets and their Warsaw Pact Allies were told in such a manner as to leave absolutely no doubt in anyone's mind that the immediate response to any attack involving Chemical or Biological weapons would be immediate retaliation with tactical nuclear weapons. If that were to happen as far as Saddam and Iraq goes that would have been it - Game, Set and Match - Goodnight Vienna.
3. Ever wonder why there was such a thing as a Republican Guard, a Special Republican Guard and the Fedayheen Saddam in Iraq Amos?? They all existed Amos, because Saddam Hussein did not trust his Army, which is why all their main barracks were out of Baghdad, why their transport was kept with insufficient fuel to reach Baghdad, why the Army units were only supplied with ammunition sufficient for 24 hours. If he distrusts his Army to that extent do you honestly, seriously think that he is going to supply them with Chemical or Biological weapons??