But Ruth, you and I both know that the swastika is alive and well and is chalked on many doorsteps in Leicester alongside the Om symbol and showered with flower petals - should that be discouraged because of the bad connotations? - and just as I carry a present of a ganesha on my person at the request of a friend for whom it means a lot that I do so, I reserve the right to have a swastika tattood in henna on my wrist or the back of my hand.

Black people reclaimed the word Nigger, and for a short time this had the effect of taking the sting out of the word - that is until the music industry absorbed hip hop and recycled the whole thing as a licence for white people to say the word without fear of retribution - as parodied beautifully by Chris Rock - "when is it ok ... " etc

Lizzie, On the subject of differences, I think the first step to understanding is recognizing differences - you are English, I am Irish, you are a woman, I am a man, and that's just for starters. If we put our hands next to each other we would see that our skin is not the same colour or texture even though we fall under the umbrella of white.

We do not perpetuate anything by recognizing these differences, and we do not perpetuate any conflict between us by recognizing that we hold differing opinions, have different senses of humour etc etc.

And likewise, by recognizing that there really are differences between middle and working class moralities, humour, world view, activities etc etc and that different sectors of society have distinct characters to be celebrated and embraced, we promote harmony, and we do not prolong divides.

What prolongs the divide is the entrenched middle class view that the working class should stop making excuses for its lewd rude uncouthness and take responsibility for itself and develop more social awareness, and the entrenched working class view that the middle class should spend less time giving judgemental, sniffy lectures and develop a sense of humour or f*** off.

That's usually how the fights I've seen have started.

Working class culture is responsible for a great deal of what is really valuable in English culture, and football and football culture are central to working class culture.

We take the tube every day and we count at least one football scarf on each carriage.

Underneath the jackets are the team colours.

Familys go out with matching shirts - mum - dad - the boys and the girls.

They sing the songs and they feel a sense of belonging to their town and to each other.

Nowadays they are Black, white, Asian, male, female, young and old.

Just like the rest of us.

And while rivalry exists, they connect with each other and with those from Sao Paolo, Ankara, Gdansk, Rotterdam, Buenos Aires, Naples ... etc

The reason America remains the exception is that the blue collar classes are more into hockey and basketball. That's where the grit is in American sport.

And just as young Irish men wielding bombs don't make all Irish bad, or young moslem men wielding bombs don't make all moslems bad, or young black men carrying guns and knives in New Cross and Peckham where I live don't make all black people bad, so stupid young drunk violent men wearing football scarves will never define working class footie culture as yob culture, but for many middle class observers, there is no difference.

I'm not saying that you fall into this category, but the class divide will exist as long is middle class people continue to pooh pooh its existence and to blame it on the loutish stubbornness of the working classes themselves who seem proud to live in their own filth.

Insane Beard, I thnk your last point in fact echoes my view - I don't think anyone is trying to push a perception of English society as being one thing and another. I think what we have here is a series of different accounts. Sorry for the kneejerk tone of my earlier comments.