Transcript of a conversation between Phil Ochs and John Lennon about Phil's song 'Joe Hill. Conversation and Phil Performing Chords of Fame was recorded 15th Dec 1971:

P. "Did you follow the words here?"
J. "If I didn't, I've got it here,…I was half in the music and half in the words."
P. "Yeah."
J. "Go on."
P. "See here, here's a …."
J. "That tune, I love that tune."
3rd voice "Do Chords of Fame."
P. "Chords of Fame?"
3rd voice "Yeah."
P. "OK."
J. "Do you mean that's a public domain song?" (John still referring to 'Joe Hill')
P. "The melody is."
J. "I'll have it. I don't hold those (?). Who have I heard singing that tune?"
P. "Let's just st….." (Phil trying to get started with Chords of Fame.)
John hums the first few bars of John Henry.
P. "John Hardy, yeah, everybody…."
J. "John Hardy, that was it?"
P. "Yeah, The Kingston Trio (?)"
J. "I didn't hear any of that."
P. "And Woodie Guthrie wrote another long ballad called 'Tom Joad' after he saw the movie 'The Grapes of Wrath', it told the movie in long ballad form, it's a, about as long as that one" (referring to Joe Hill).
J. "That's how many verses?"
P. "That, that, I don't know let's…"
Phil seems desperate to start singing Chords of Fame, and John is all questions.
J. "Did you do it in a traditional form like, so many verses?"
P. "Oh yeah, I wrote about twenty eight verses, yeah."
J. "And that's how, well was that traditional to write to write twenty eight? Or…"
P. "No, no."
J. "Any size?"
P. "Any size, oh yeah, oh they ran that long, sure, but uh, but uh
J. "Sure, I just wondered if you done it to a format?"
P. "Not, not, not to the uh not to the uh, to the length, I mean it's just a long ballad it could have gone on…."
J. "You are the same guy that was in the pub aren't you, ha, ha, ha, ha."
P. "The same? Yeah I am.
J. "I'm kidding."
P. "I know, look I was."
J. "I'm sure, we've all been there."
P. "I was so wiped out when I saw the limousine, I'd had about three bottles of red wine and I was racing to the village for more when I heard this "Stop!" You know. "What's happening?""
J. Yeah, it's freaky, ha, ha. Come on."
P. "Uh, here's a song about, about a (?), Chords of Fame."
J. "Yeah that's it."
P. "Um"
J. "Ok, hey."
P. "This is a, this is a song about the dangers of fame, ok, um….."
Phil Sings Chords of Fame as John accompanies on slide guitar.

Rog