The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #117570   Message #2537226
Posted By: Anne Lister
10-Jan-09 - 01:09 PM
Thread Name: BS: Atheists and Ghosts
Subject: RE: BS: Atheists and Ghosts
You see, there we go again. There's an assumption made here that people have an expectation about how ghosts behave. I'll go back to what I said before - if you haven't had an experience that involves ghosts the chances are you'll try to explain it for people who have. But I had no expectation of encountering anything ghostly when I did, still less an expectation of how that "ghost" would behave. And it makes entire sense to me that ghosts in different places would "behave" in different ways, because so would the people in that area. If a ghost is indeed a recording of an intense event from the past it would carry that behaviour pattern with it.   Unless there was a missing negative from the penultimate paragraph - in which case I don't understand it at all! Now, if a person from the UK saw a ghost in Japan who was behaving like a ghost from the UK you might want to blame it on cultural expectations ... if, that is, people in Japan who had seen a ghost in the same place described the experience differently.
I don't know that you can assume that there's nothing odd happening in a supposedly haunted pub just because a dog doesn't react - I'm guessing that the ghosts don't appear every night to order and that short of getting the dog to talk about what happened and how he felt about it you're not going to know if he noticed anything odd anyway. Might have been a dog-loving ghost! (Or a ghost-loving dog).

There's still the question, even if it's true that human perception has in some way created the ghost, as to why some people experience it and others don't and why specifically then and there.
The clincher for me, quite apart from my own experiences (which I've attempted to find alternative explanations for, and failed), was hearing from three separate women at one particular women's prison about a ghost they'd each seen. The women hadn't talked about it before with each other or anyone else, nor had they heard that anyone else had seen this ghost. It didn't appear in just one place but in several places in the large building, and it wasn't remotely frightening. It was, in fact, reassuring and was a source of comfort to those who had seen it. These were women with good reasons for their trust issues with men, and they had each seen an elderly male. So much for expectations and constructs.

As I've said, it's fine by me if you want to discount all of this and hold on to your own certainties that ghosts are just perceptual constructs or simply don't exist. Just don't expect me to sit back and nod when your explanations fail to make sense of what I've experienced.   I live with a man who has to lead ghost tours as part of his job and who is convinced that ghosts don't exist (if he wasn't I think it would be hard for him to lead the ghost tours). He's met lots of people with lots of wishful thinking about what they see in the building where he works, and it's a building where they know the history, pretty much. However he was with me (elsewhere) when I had one experience with something inexplicable and he hasn't yet come up with an explanation for what happened, short of a ghost with a sense of mischief.

Anne