But, Frank...for many people the concept of "God" is one that goes completely beyond "the Church", it goes beyond any and all churches, and it may in fact have nothing to do with any church. I'd say that is so in my case. I have a concept of God that does not derive from any church I know of, and I belong to no church or organized religion, so how does invoking God in some way have to indicate a mixing of church and state?

I do believe in the state. I don't believe in churches (for myself, I mean, I don't care if other people belong to them or not). I do believe in something that I term "God", but it isn't the property of any church or religion, they didn't copywright it, it isn't under their jurisdication as far as I'm concerned. They may talk about some hypothetical version of it that they favor, but they don't own it.

I have no wish to join church and state together, but I don't think it's even possible to separate the state or anything else from "God", because God is the infinite (and the infinite is, by definition, inclusive of everything).

Therefore, I do not object to Barack Obama invoking God, because as far as I'm concerned, when he does so he is simply invoking the greater mysteries that lie behind and within Life itself, those things that a person can be instinctively aware of, and can draw strength from, although it isn't possible for us to ever fully define what those greater mysteries are. They are something you feel inside, but you can't measure it or confine it in any way.

Historical religions have tried to formalize all that in some way and make a bunch of rules about it. They did that because most people feel safer with rules, and it secured a place of power for the rule-makers. I feel safer knowing that ultimately...there are NO rules...there is just one immense reality, and one must (hopefully) deal with it in as flexible manner as would be wise. Therefore I don't conform to any particular religion. I don't want their rules and restrictions. I want freedom to decide for myself, using my own understanding. Obama looks to me like a man who also decides for himself, using his own understanding. If he feels he is drawing some inner strength from something greater than himself while he arrives at a decision...how does that involve "church and state"? It involves his personal faith and the state...but it doesn't involve church and state as far as I'm concerned.

This is a case of people arguing about outward formalities. They say, "I don't like your formality, because it's not my formality." Well, someone else's formalities are their own business, seems to me.