The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #117438   Message #2547053
Posted By: Bill D
23-Jan-09 - 11:27 AM
Thread Name: BS: Atheists: No 'so help me God'
Subject: RE: BS: Atheists: No 'so help me God'
We in the USA have schizophrenic relationship with religion. One one hand, we have have a Constitution that says we shall NOT "establish" a religion, while on the other hand we say that everyone will have "freedom of religion"

That leads to extremists on either end of the spectrum saying that
1)No religious signs, oaths, public prayers....etc., should be allowed.
or
2)We have a right ("freedom of religion") to do anything we wish to promote our version of the 'truth'.

There are those who argue....with great sincerity.... that since the majority of our citizens are some version of Christian, and since many of our founders were some form of Christian, that this IS therefore, "a Christian nation". They just conveniently disregard that awkward line in the Constitution that says we are NOT.

Then, we have the situation that the Christian faith has a line in the New Testament:

"Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
4:18 And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.
4:19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.
"

(There is a similar passage at Mark 1:14)

This is one of the passages that are cited to defend and promote evangelism ...to exhort those who believe in the literal interpretations of the Bible to try to convert others and spread the word.
   This make a certain kind of convoluted sense. *IF* you believe in God, and that Jesus spoke FOR God, then if HE wants you to try to save the souls of misguided NON believers, you should not be deterred by silly political documents...after all, you are doing folks a favor!

To this end, you assert that your "freedom of religion" granted BY that silly ummm.. important.. political document, gives you the right to overlay public ceremonies with Christian prayers, put monuments with Christian lines (i.e., the 10 Commandments) in public buildings, knock on people's doors and preach to them, insert "under God" into oaths and engrave it on the currency......

   All this strains, to put it mildly, relations between those who feel they are just "witnessing" and following their religion, and those who do not WISH to have religious invocations added to situations where they have little choice about being there.

Now...this in no way prevents someone from swearing "so help ME God" to assert that he is invoking HIS deepest and most sincere promise about his words & actions....but 'teaching' children that the 'proper' way to pledge allegiance to one's country must INCLUDE "under God" is simply saying "ha, ha...we are in the majority. and we'll do it our way"....and yet they decry 'mistreatment' or censorship of Christians in lands where they are NOT the majority.

I don't pretend that all sincere believers go thru all the steps of logic I note above...they just have the basic attitude of "I am right, so whatever I do in the NAME of righteousness is reasonable"

Thus, I can see what effort it was for Rick Warren to contrive a prayer that satisfied him, but did the minimum to upset others.

I do wonder how hard it would be to just ask everyone at moments like that to observe a minute of silence & contemplation and ask for help & guidance from whatever source they feel is appropriate. If I understand it right, believers believe that God hears sincere prayers whether they are done out loud and over a PA system or not.

(I try not to do one of these postings too often, because, as you see, I get all wound up...)

I just repeat what I have said many times..

"Freedom OF religion must include freedom FROM religion for those who wish it."