The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #117126 Message #2551745
Posted By: Teribus
29-Jan-09 - 04:46 AM
Thread Name: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus...
Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus...
"The reason there was a precise itemized report by Iraq in 1998 is that they were cooperating with the requirement that they disarm." - Amos
Now that statement of yours Amos beggars belief. It is complete and utter hogwash and you know it. Iraq was co-operating?? So what was it that UNSCOM was complaining about to the United Nations Security Council?? What was the reason for "Desert Fox"?? Remember the complaints about the status of the 17 "Presidential Palaces" built by Saddam - the ones UNSCOM could not inspect - were they an example of all this Iraqi co-operation??.
"You continue to ignore the difference between that point in time and the 2002-3 time period, in order to make the invasion seem justified." - Amos
Eh, No Amos, I don't think so, quite the reverse in fact, go back and read exactly what I have said about what was known in 1998 compared to what was known in 2003 - something to do with their being an "intelligence Black-hole" in the region as far as the US was concerned (That came about thanks to "Peanut" Carter by the bye).
By all means Barry let's - "Look at what happened, look at what transpired."
- Where before there was uncertainty regarding Iraqi WMD and WMD programmes there is now none. That is what has happened, now is that good or bad.
- Where before Iraq under Saddam Hussein acted as a state sponsor for international terrorism instigating trouble in the region, particularly in Israel. The terrorists in the region have now lost an important backer thereby increasing the prospects for peace in the region. That is what has happened, good or bad.
- Libya unilaterally renounced and disbanded it's WMD programme, that is what happened. What transpired was the discovery of a hither to unknown, and extremely advanced, nuclear weapons programme. Now was that a good thing or a bad thing.
- The secret, illegal and extremely dangerous activities of Dr.A.Q.Khan in the field of nuclear weapons proliferation were brought out into the open and shut down. That is what happened, that is what transpired, good or bad.
- According to NIE reports Iran at least temporarily suspended its uranium enrichment programme in 2003. That is what happened and what transpired was that the IAEA got a glimpse of the scale of the secret nuclear programme of Iran.
- North Korea was persuaded to resume six-party talks on nuclear abandonment. That is what transpired, what happened was that an agreement was reached and now all parties are working towards a mutually agreed solution.
- Syria was ordered to leave the Lebanon by the UN and complied after occupying the country for 27 years. Syrian attempts at acquiring nuclear technology and weapons were stopped dead in their tracks.
- "Al-Qaeda" as seen from the perspective of the "Muslim World" was exposed for condemnation by all for the way they conducted themselves in Iraq. Even Al-Qaeda's second in command admitted their total failure in Iraq.
Now then Barry all the above came about because the US acted as it did - by taking on and dealing with a "rogue state" it seriously discouraged four others and they are listed above. Throughout the period since the invasion of Iraq and the toppling of Saddam Hussein oil supplies from the region have flowed uninterrrupted and have in fact increased. Now what would have happened and what might have transpired if the US had not acted:
- Iraq would have resumed its game of giving UNMOVIC the run-around until they were convinced to give Iraq the all clear.
- UN sanctions on Iraq would have been withdrawn or just simply ignored.
- Iraq would have them rearmed and Russian, China and France would be only too pleased to help them
- Nothing would be known about the activities of Dr.A.Q.Khan furthering the likelyhood of even wider nuclear weapons proliferation
- Libya would now have a nuclear weapon that nobody knew about, a weapon that was totally annonymous - sort of like a gun with all marks removed, a weapon that could not be traced.
- Syria would still be present in Lebanon and would be actively pursuing the acquisition of nuclear weapons aided and abetted by Dr.A.Q.Khan and the North Koreans.
- By now 2009 the second Iran/Iraq War would be in its third or fourth year. There is no way on earth that Saddam Hussein would have stood by and allowed the Iranian nuclear programme to advance as far as it has without doing something about it. The only course of action open to him would be to attack Iran, with the resulting closure or severe restrictions to oil supplies sailing through the Straits of Hormuz.
- Iraq would have resumed WMD production and would still be sponsoring terrorist organisations.
- Al-Qaeda would still be "dining-out" on the Kudos from 9/11, it would have got stronger and would now have numerous avenues to explore with regard to obtain a WMD for an attack or attacks on the US or Israel, especially from a source who had a weapon that nobody knew about.
- Which way Pakistan might have jumped doesn't really bear thinking about.
Don't know about you Barry but I know which picture looks better and is better for the entire planet - you may disagree.