Yeah, Obama country where Obama says we won and we are going to do as we please. All the while esposing bipartisanship and unification.

Bobert likes to blurt out these absolute statements based on his own strange ideas of how things really are and when it starts looking like the statement was wrong, he gets all huffy and puffy and tries to dredfine his statement.

I could be wrong on this but I believe anybody who thinks they are always right is arrogant.

I merely point out the incorrectness in people's statements and I get stereotyped as some sort of monster that is always wrong. Ad hominem. Argument against the person instead of the factuality of what they have presented.

Yes, I have been wrong on several occasions. I usually try to admit that I was wrong rather than bluster along and get hostile defending my mistaken ideas.

Nobody is right all of the time and nobody is wrong all of the time.

Things need to be considered on an individual basis.

This is what I believe to be open minded thinking.

And I always try to avoid telling people that they are stupid, just mistaken, unknowledgeable or unwilling to admit to truth.

Did the surge work or was it the awakening that worked?

I think the real heart if the matter is "Would the awakening have worked without the surge?

If could be that the awakening would have worked on it's own but I don't think it would have. Nor would the surge have worked without the awakening.

The Sunnis saw the light and finally got the determination but could they have defeated Al Quaeda alone? Was not arming them part of the surge?

I think the chances are that if not for the surge, Iraq would still be a war zone.

All in all I believe the surge was a positive thing but it has to be derided by those who made closed minded assertions that it will not work, It cannot work, it is all a lie etc.

Likewise, those that were against the war and made absolute statements that the war is lost, we can't win etc, must now focus only on WMDs to assert that the war was wrong when in fact there was a plurality of reasons for the war that go back way before GWB.