The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #117126   Message #2568341
Posted By: Teribus
16-Feb-09 - 01:03 PM
Thread Name: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus...
Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus...
"All of whom got it wrong of course. You forgot to mention that bit."

Got what wrong exactly Folkiedave?? Before answering:

- Actually read the relevant UN Security Council Resolutions particularly 678 and 687.

- Actually read the final reports from UNSCOM to the UN Security Council delivered in January and March 1999.

- Then take the trouble to learn exactly what it was that was considered to pose the greatest threat to the United States of America in the wake of the attacks of 11th September 2001.

You will then find out that they got it spot on.

"Have you not noticed the USA has a long history of invading people and sometimes democratically elected leaders?"

Well no I haven't Folkiedave. The US has "invaded" very few countries in the post-Second World War era. Certainly a damn sight fewer than Soviet Russia, or China. Your list of US "invasions" resulted in far fewer casualties, in comparison to their Soviet counter-parts, resulted in no "occupation" of foreign soil and were extremely short in duration. But let's have a look at your contenders as "invasions" shall we.

"Since 1960.........." - Why only since 1960 Folkiedave??

Bay of Pigs 1961 - "Cold War"
Not really an invasion by the United States of America was it Folkiedave? It was an unsuccessful attempt by a force of Cuban immigrants to the US who were exiled from Cuba to invade southwest Cuba with support from U.S. government armed forces and overthrow the Cuban government of Fidel Castro.

Dominican Republic 1965 - "Cold War"
Not really an invasion by the United States of America was it Folkiedave? Initial US intervention due to responsibility to protect and evacuate US citizens from a "civil war" situation. The United States along with the Organization of American States (OAS) formed an inter-American military force to assist in the intervention in the Dominican Republic. Later, the Inter-American Peace Force (IAPF) was formally established on May 23. In addition to the United States military presence, the following troops were sent by each country; Brazil 1130, Honduras 250, Paraguay 184, Nicaragua 160, Costa Rica 21 military police, and El Salvador 3 staff officers. Some 6,500 people from many nations were evacuated to safety. In addition, the US forces airlifted in large relief supplies for Dominican nationals. The fighting continued until 31 August 1965 when a truce was declared. Most American troops left shortly afterwards as policing and peacekeeping operations were turned over to Brazilian troops, but some U.S. military presence remained until September 1966.

Vietnam (1959 - 1974) "Bit far away to pose a threat weren't they?" - "Cold War"
Not really an invasion by the United States of America was it Folkiedave? The Vietnam War, also known as the Second Indochina War, the Vietnam Conflict, or often in Vietnam the American War occurred in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia from 1959 to April 30, 1975. The war was fought between the communist North Vietnam, supported by its communist allies, and the government of South Vietnam, supported by the United States and other member nations of the Southeast Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO).

Care to tell who it was that invaded Vietnam in what was known as the Third Indochina War Folkiedave??

"Still the domino theory said if they won the world would collapse and "no longer be safe for democracy". Well they won with no visible effect on democracy, apart from a couple of million dead in the area, widespread use of chemical defoliants - carpet bombings of civilans etc etc...and the 58,000+ dead Americans. But American governments love spending money on war." - Well so much left-wing froth and indignation. What the US intervention in Vietnam did achieve was to discourage the Kremlin and Beijing from further attempts at expansion in South-East Asia, the SEATO alliance held when many planners in the Kremlin thought it would fold. While Vietnam was starting another "communist inspired insurgency" was being defeated in Malaysia.

The US invaded Indonesia?? Really - don't think so Folkiedave, same goes for your other candidates. Want to compare notes on the Soviet invasions and occupations that followed the end of the Second World War Folkiedave?? Travel to eastern Europe Folkiedave and ask the people living there if they want to have the Russians back, I dare say you'll find more than a few there who could show you their scars and be more than willing to tell you who were responsible for them - but that's not the sort of history you would want to hear of acknowledge is it Folkiedave??.

As for your remark - "Give it a rest old boy - I am afraid history in not on your side." - I'm pretty sure that you, and the likes of you, do wish that I would give it a rest. Becomes pretty embarrassing when every time you trot out the usual myths, lies, misrepresentations and half-truths that someone calls you to task for it. The history that you say is not on my side is the rather selective version that the socialist left cling to in order to bolster their prejudices.

Now how about that list that defines the Left's march to the "Brave-New-World" since the defeat of Nazi Germany, eh Folkiedave - Shall we take the USSR first Dave:

The following are "Invasions" proper Folkiedave, not quick "in-and-out" affairs lasting a couple of months where few died. What we're talking about here is brutal use of military force, thousands of deaths, permanent military bases and occupations lasting years, where the political will of Soviet Russia was ruthlessly imposed upon the subject nations.

- Bulgaria
- Romania
- Poland (Twice although second time round by proxy)
- Latvia
- Lithuania
- Estonia
- Hungary (Twice)
- Czechoslovakia (Twice)
- Yugoslavia
- Albania
- East Germany
- Angola
- Mozambique
- Vietnam
- Indonesia
- Afghanistan

China next, eh Folkiedave??:
- South Korea
- Tibet
- Vietnam

Shall we now compare the death tolls for each?? Followed by the durations??

Who's side is history on now Folkiedave??