The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #119172   Message #2582915
Posted By: GUEST,Gibb
06-Mar-09 - 06:35 PM
Thread Name: Tune Req: Seeking a 1600s Sea Shanty
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Seeking a 1600s Sea Shanty
Being totally unhelpful here, but....the poster did ask for "other thoughts"...

I'm extremely skeptical of any attempt to try to perform a chantey from the 17th century and present it positively as such. To say any chanteys we ~know~ today existed then is all conjecture. The inference of the "bowline" (i.e. a line called "bowline" which would require a chantey has not existed on vessels since such and such time) is a fine enough theory, but more like one that has just been passed down from author to author of books every time they need to supply program notes to "Haul on the Bowline." There is just too much doubt in my mind, based on everything else we know about chanteys, to positively present it as a chantey of such an age (i.e. rather than merely footnoting the theory). Basically it comes down to imagination, and a certain willful suspension of doubt (helped in this case by "experts" who may make certain statements). The "pirate" impersonators who, dressed in 18th century attire, perform 19th century chanteys, do have a lot of harmless fun but it seems like that is only possible due to their not knowing that what they are doing is inaccurate.

I was noting in another thread a source that suggests "Haul Away Joe" was an adaptation of a minstrel song (which may or may not have true African-American origins). Doesnt prove anything, but I could buy it. I thought about how in the TV series "Roots," while depicting a slaving brig in the mid 18th century they used two chanteys: "Haul Away Joe" and "Haul on the Bowline." My assumption is that they were grasping for whatever chanteys could possibly have been used back then. In light of the more recent findings, "Haul Away Joe" doesnt seem to be that old. Should I give the other chantey, "Haul on the Bowline," a pass?

I don't mean to take the fun out of your activity. My point is: fun is fun (and I love fun), but conjectures aren't facts. A lot of people seem to get enjoyment out of being told how "authentic" or historically accurate a performance of tradition music is. My wet-blankety opinion is perform as/what you will, but along with it don't create any illusions of certainty. It's bad enough that most of your audience will already be imagining that the sea chanteys we know are "really really old" etc etc, which you'd be reinforcing.

Gibb