"Dead right - in one context. Many (though not all by any means) are performing this function for the benefit of guest and floor singers. But for a singer / singer-songwriter whose face doesn't fit, these organisers' clubs are an inefficient route to travel along to get your singing or songs to a wider audience. I gave upon this route as long ago as 1980 (luckily!). What I said in the earlier posting hold firm *in this context*."

If you've decided this is not the route for you, whay are you knocking it so heavily?

I'm really stumped how to respond to the last 3 posts. You are describing a world I just don't recognise. For myself as a solo singer/ banjo player, I'm quite happy at singarounds and the odd floor spot. Quite frankly, that is my level, I'm competent but nothing special.... and I enjoy this for what it is.

I also play as part of a 4 piece band with 3 very talented ladies (they all sing, are multi- instrumentalits and write good songs and have an ear for arrangement of trad songs and others), we're starting to get pretty regular bookings, we only started out last June. I also play as a backing twanger for my wife who gets pretty regular paid gigs in folk clubs, at festivals and elsewhere. Her first "main guest" folk club booking was a year ago. We have mini-tours of Scotland and the Southeast booked for later this year. (I'll put up the gig list if anyone is interested)

Now, none of the acts that I play with or am involved with are probably ever going to be the best known in the folk world or else where but they do get regular opportunities to play/ sing in front of people (which I think is what the 3 posts above are complaining they don't get enough of).

Why is this? Well it is partly talent (not neccersarily mine, see above!) but it is more about the hard work we are prepared to put in. We get paid for some of what we do......but by no means all, for me personally, it is at best a self funding hobby. (The missus does a lot better!)

I could go on, but my main point here is that you don't need to:

                     be born in the right bed;
                     be married to the right (famous) person;
                     know the right people;
                     have money to buy my your in;
                     have the right kind of Daddy.

If you want to get your music "out there" you can't wait for people to offer you a longer slot based on what you do at a singaround or as a floor singer (though it does help if you can make an impact with one or two songs).... you have to make your own opportunities. I'm more than happy to share what else we have done if anyone is interested.

With another hat on (club organiser) I'm always surprised that people get upset with me for not offering them a support or guest slot.... they just assume that I know they want one when often they have often not even asked! Work that one out.

The opportunities to get your music heard are all around.... if this is important to you why not expend your energy looking for these opportunities rather than complaining that the world is stacked against you? It really isn't..... but no one said it was going to be easy either!

I still think floor singers shopuld pay to get into guest clubs.... we do if we're going somewhere to do a floor spot. Get to see some great guests as well.

Paul Arrowsmith