Thanks for today's comments.

Twickfolk - I didn't expect to be thanking you re. reference to our Myspace site.

The bit that's missing, for space / trying to be concise reasons is a bit of detail about the origins of Singarounds here. I was reminded of the point when reading Tom's Living Tradition article (at last!) monday morning.

The folk environment we found in the late 1970s was pretty much as some of the themes (Hands up!) I keep refering to - in various threads. There were good organisers of course, as well as exclusive ones but its the latter I blame substantially for the long term decline of Guest Clubs.

And the problems they caused must be adressed if folk is to have any sort of popular future.

The argument: Their cliquery (by that I mean letting chums walk later in the evening and getting a spot at the expenxse of floor singers promised a spot 7.30pm when they first arrived for example) drove many new singers away.

If you've been insulted, or see things run in a totally unfair way; not only will you give up trying to participate in folk, but you'll quite likely tell your mates that the folk scene is pretty awful - and the word spreads through a peer group.

This stopped a wider variety of people getting involved with folk and possibly contributed to the "uncool" perception of folk among younger generations.

Luckily what happened here on the ground one evening was that a large number of potential floor singers experienced "can't fit you in" treatment on the same night. But instead of disappearing into the anti-folk nightime, got together and compared notes. The result was a new singers club based on fairness - as an antidote the exclusivity that prevailed (and still rules OK in many places - I hear reports from Singaround supporters/visitors who've tried to get floorspots very recently).

In this case; instead of a trickle of people steadily encountering these 'in groups' and being driven away, here a critical mass was reached where there were enough people to form an alternative 'scene'.

So what of places where no such critical mass occured? One Folk scene, dying, because is was closed to outsiders so failed to replenish itself by this being "closed"?

Of course there's another group: those organisers who,despite their exclusivity were actually very good at the Folk Business - running Guest / Concert Clubs; offrering the right guest at a price audiences are prepared to pay - so are among the ones that thrive through to this day.   

But the fact looking longterm - we must surely all agree, is that there were a hell of a lot of clubs 30 years ago compared with now - and it would help all types of folk supporters to be realistic and honest about what's gone wrong where it has gone wrong.

May I make a suggestion (didn't Tom hint at this?) - that we try and encourage actual research (University student looking for a project?) into the facts and figures of the folk scene over the years; and qualitively, get a better idea of public attitudes and perceptions of folk music: clubs, concerts, singarounds, bar sessions, Morris dancers the lot.

I did something like this for the Steam Railway Preservation movement for my degree. Some of the findings produced great surprises.

Breezy, Snail - I'll get back to your contributions later.


Ian Fyvie