Tom - Very good news about the study - that's going to be a major step in the right direction.

On the floorspot issue, the examples I draw on are mainly on the late 1970s/early'80s era. The type of rudeness towards floor singers was suffered by a number of people I know / knew in the past. As mentioned last posting - I still hear stories of this type from singers who come to our Singarounds who get about more than I do*.

I wasn't actually a major victim (though it may seem that way!) - once I'd sussed the way a club was run I simply steered clear of it.
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Sadly a number of singers saw these clubs as THE folk scene so kept on trying - so kept on being treated badly. Result? some fine musicians and songwriters have had an unhappy life in music - a number more have been
scared away from folk for ever.

The best thing we ever did was to set up the alternative folk scene. This, I hope, saved many more singers being driven away.

*I stopped going to guest clubs in the early 1980's (except one where I was resident) - and the last time I paid to see a guest was on Bob Copper's 80th Birthday - a long time ago! All I do now is support our local weekly singarounds - with an occasional visit to a nearby club (singers night, special event or to support friends) or a London area Singers Club / Singaround. Plus I have some unfulfilled invitations on the list which are only acessible by car.

Quick one or two more -

Capt B - Folk Cliques - all iI said was that they were all too common - not that all folk clubs are run cliques. I wouldn't give any examples here but some of my friends are quite happy to name clubs where this is still the case right now.

Breezy - I did go to clubs (see above) for several years. I saw a good selection of the Guests doing the circuits of the day. I was impressed by two brilliiant singer songwriters (famous ones) and two more excellent ones who fall into Tom's Journeyman catagory (never became big names).

I was not impressed with most of the other 'Journeymen' however - good performers nearly always - but it comes to taste at some point - unless you are that folk club "stalwart ".

The problem overall here is seeing booked guests as the only source of learning; and with it a denial that you can see brillaint and inspirational people at singarounds.   

Banjiman - what better way of promoting and expanding folk than to list SIngers Clubs that are free to go to, particularly if you're a singer?

Do you really want everyone entering the folk world to pay an entry fee and see a guest when they just want a cheap night sharing folk songs? The pure economics alone will be be a barrier for many - quite apart from the guest club not providing the sort of thing they actually want!

Snail - sorry but I really think you missed my point!