Sodding computer:
.....and if I had to each time I went to the grocer's he'd pretty soon be out selling The Big Issue.
Of course not all clubs are like this - it wouldn't be worth even thinking about if they were; but enough of them are to cause concern, and Alice in Wonderland threads like this one are only going to cement the condition into place permanently.
Argue for no standards and 'it doesn't matter what we give 'em' and what have you got - undefinable songs badly sung - gratuitously offensive to singers like Walter Pardon, who knew the difference, to me as a folkie 'lifer' and to the intelligence of any potenial audience for our music.
It is gratuitously offensive not to give of our best to anybody who comes to listen to out music. It is gratuitously offensive to make facile comparisons between our music and other forms which are obviously light years different, and are little more that excuses for not thinking the subject through.
My ideas and opinions didn't spring out of just internet threads or a few bad experiences, or books..... They came from running and singing at clubs, from sitting in the older singers kitchens and listening to what they have to say, and from coming home from club after club with the opinion that I could have heard better in a 'Knees Up Mother Brown' crocodile. Sure, the books played a part in the way I think - unlike some people on this thread, I'm not prepared to block off any source of information by describing it as 'academic shit'. Nor am I going to refuse to listen to an experienced and dedicated club organiser like yourself - the more you have to tell us about how you have managed to run a good club, the more chance we have of getting the ball back in play.
Earlier I outlined what I believe to be the implications of the 1954 definition. If I am wrong and what I described is not folk music, then tell me what I've missed. If you feel the term needs re-defining, feel free to do so, but you're going to have to convince a lot of people who, though they may not attend the clubs, are still up to their ears in the music, and who, if we are wrong in our analysis, are sending out a distorted message which is the one that will prevail.
Jim Carroll
PS Didn't really mistakenly hit the send button, but deliberately sent this in two parts because it was too long.