Jim Carroll

The last two clubs I attended in the UK (last year and the year before) were just as I have described

The last two clubs I attended in the UK (last Saturday and last Thursday) were not as you have described. I heard a lot of music and song which I think you would have been quite happy to describe as folk music including at least one Walter Pardon song. I think you would have enjoyed yourself at both of them.

Nor am I going to refuse to listen to an experienced and dedicated club organiser like yourself - the more you have to tell us about how you have managed to run a good club, the more chance we have of getting the ball back in play.

Then perhaps you understand why I get a little peed off when you describe the policy we operate as "crass", "dumbing down", "promoting crap standards". I do not argue for "no standards"; I argue against imposing my standards on other people. I argue for the residents and regular floor singers to set a standard, if not of perfect quality, at least of caring about and respecting the music and putting in the effort it deserves then trusting people to set their own standards. Trust me, it works. You seem to equate wanting to sing with not being able to sing. I equate wanting to sing with wanting to sing well.

Earlier I outlined what I believe to be the implications of the 1954 definition. If I am wrong and what I described is not folk music, then tell me what I've missed.

I'm not contesting the 1954 definition. It has its problems but I approve of what it is trying to do. My point is that some people, as Sinister Supporter has shown, will interpret it in ways that suit them; some will ignore it; some (probably the majority) have never heard of it. All these people will continue to call what they do folk music. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Sure, I can phone in advance to find out if the local folk club caters for people who like folk music - ..... I SHOULDN'T BLOODY HAVE TO

In an ideal world, no you shouldn't have to but I'm afraid you have to make do with the real world you actually live in. If you ask for cheese and get offered something that appears to be a byproduct of the oil industry, learn from the experience and find another grocer. Don't, as you are doing, condemn all grocers and swear never to eat cheese again. Is the music really less important than what you call it? Accept that you've lost control of those two words but don't throw the music away.

threads like this one are only going to cement the condition into place permanently

Yes they are if people like you whose voice carries a certain amount of clout insist on damning the whole UK folk scene to hell.

Of course not all clubs are like this

BREAKTHROUGH! But couldn't you try and help us rather than hindering?