The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #119913   Message #2607503
Posted By: Big Mick
08-Apr-09 - 03:14 PM
Thread Name: BS: So much=overwhelmed + no outrage?
Subject: RE: BS: So much=overwhelmed + no outrage?
Of course you will sit here and blame the weapon, and access to it, instead of the right wing nut jobs that have been spewing their hate speech, and fear mongering, for years. They now have folks so afraid that they take these types of actions, such as killing three cops in "defense" of freedom.

But the problem is that the evidence still doesn't back up that "common sense" you are spreading, Bill. Twould that it were so, but Harvard did a study that demonstrated that access had little or no effect on the murder/suicide rates ("Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide: A Review of International Evidence," Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy, vol. 30, pages 651-694.) After extensive research it concluded that there were no instances of nations with high gun ownership having higher murder rates than nations with low gun ownership. If anything it was the reverse.

England enacted some of the toughest gun control measures, and handgun restrictions in the world in the late '90's. Since then they have seen their violent crime rate rise to the highest in the industrialized world and twice that of the US.

Russia, and the former Soviet Bloc countries, have 4 times the murder rate of the USA, despite over 8 decades of total State control of firearms, and very tough restrictions on gun ownership.

Then you look at Norway. Highest percentage of gun ownership in Western Europe. Lowest murder rate.

In our own country we can also draw some conclusions. Based on one report I read, the murder rate among African-Americans is 6 times higher than it is among whites. Yet law abiding African Americans don't own weapons in anywhere near the levels of white Americans. The rural African American owns weapons at about the same percentage as rural white folks, and has a lower rate of violent crime/murder. The conclusion being that violence really is about economic conditions and hopelessness and has nothing to do with race or accessibility to weapons. The overall murder rate in our country is about the same now as it was in 1946, even though gun ownership has risen 500%. There were spikes and drops, my guess due to other factors such as economics, but despite the dramatic rise in ownership, the levels of violent crime have not risen.

So I don't think it is a straw man, Bill. The facts just don't support the conclusion.

All the best,

Mick