Bryan, As requested.

"The last two clubs I attended in the UK (last Saturday and last Thursday) were not as you have described"
So? Does that negate everything I and others have told you about our bad experiences at clubs

"Then perhaps you understand why I get a little peed off when you describe the policy we operate as "crass", "dumbing down", "promoting crap standards".
You persistently have argued that the only standard necessary for allowing a singer to sing at a club (you later made it clear that it didn't effect your club because you never got bad singers asking to sing) was the desire to do so, whether they could hold a tune, remember a text or understand a song – or not.
I have said, and I repeat, a singer should, at the very least, be able to do those things. Once they have shown themselves unable to do so, they should be encouraged, offered help from more experienced singers… however you feel you can help them, but they should not be encouraged to practice in public before an audience, certainly not a paying one. To encourage a potential singers to do so is demeaning to them, dismissive of the audience, and detrimental to the future of the music – CRAP STANDARDS.
You have accused me of attacking your club – I didn't; I said the above and will repeat it as often as you like. It was you who brought your club into the argument – I believe you said you consulted your committee before stating that was their policy   

"I'm not contesting the 1954 definition….. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it."
Except join in discussions like this when the opportunity arises.

"Accept that you've lost control of those two words but don't throw the music away".
Maybe that's your solution to things you disagree with – sorry, not mine.

"…..damning the whole UK folk scene to hell."
Do I – where? I I thought that, why should I bother involving meyself in these discussions? I have said I recognise there are good clubs – in my opinion not enough of them – and promoting crass standards is not going to improve matters.

"BREAKTHROUGH! But couldn't you try and help us rather than hindering?"
This is you at your patronising and dishonest worst Bryan.
I was going to leave this and agree that we should disagree but I came back from holiday to:
"lead by people who remember how bad it was thirty years ago and have rarely been in a folk club since." which I have no doubt was a snide reference to our past arguments, and as inaccurate an analysis as your recent effort at telling me my opinions.
I tried to take these off line, but you insisted otherwise.
I am quite enjoying this discussion – I am learning a great deal from it and I am being given the opportunity to gather my own thoughts on the subject. Unfortunately I am not going to be able to be involved to the end as I'm into hospital tomorrow and will be there for a week.
I have no intention of going head –to-head with you on this matter and nausea up a good discussion in the litle time i have to participate.
Anything else you have to say on the matter – pm me or start a thread.
Jim Carroll