The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #120306   Message #2621935
Posted By: Bill D
30-Apr-09 - 10:50 AM
Thread Name: BS: Yet Another Mass Shooting (fill in the blanks)
Subject: RE: BS: Yet Another Mass Shooting (fill in the blanks)
Kent... I have 130+ hours of college Philosophy, including logic. I see your point, but it is, once more, a metaphor that does not directly apply, and has flaws in the basic assumptions of its premises..

   You have seemingly 'demonstrated' that the conclusion follows from the premises, but the ambiguity is in the very definitions OF the terms.
One cannot simply plug in a different set of terms in a syllogism and get anything but 'internal' consistency.

If I demanded you agree that "A well-groomed leader being necessary for the enchantment of the populace, the right of the people to own hair-dryers shall not be infringed", you would be asking me how I know this, and how I determine what means 'well-groomed' is decided - and what 'enchantment' consists of - and even who comprises the 'populace'. And NONE of this addresses hair-dryers with asbestos in them!

This sort of debate pattern arises over & over with various supporters of 'gun owners rights'. I make a series of what I claim are practical ideas, and I get back some sort of circular argument of the form:
"It makes no difference what you say, the 2nd amendment is still there, and it means what we say it means, and until it is changed, we have the 'same' rights we have always had...and by the way, we will fight tooth & nail to keep it FROM being changed or clarified."

   Did you ever read "Alice in Wonderland", where Humpty Dumpty eexplains it to Alice?

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"`I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. `Of course you don't -- till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

`But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

`The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

`The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master -- that's all.'


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You see, there are two questions: 1)whether the 2nd amendment is or is not clear & unambiguous, and 2) whether it is still applicable in its current form to today's concerns.
The problem is that too many people are letting Humpty Dumpty ummm.. the NRA... do the defining of the terms by various forms of pressure & intimidation of politicians.