One aspect of this discussion that I've not read yet is that some people may have a nostalgic feeling for a song or rhyme that is racially and/or culturally insensitive because they have good memories of that learning that song from a loved one. They then pass that song on to their children and grandchildren. But maybe at some point that tradition ends because those children and grandchildren recognize that the song contains words that are no longer acceptable or its message is no longer acceptable.

For example, I posted to that thread four times. Two times I focused on an analysis of some of the words of that rhyme and how I thought they might be the source of a contemporary children's rhyme I had collected. One time I welcomed a guest to that discussion and to this forum. And the fourth time I wrote this post:

thread.cfm?threadid=6971

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: Azizi - PM
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 08:53 AM

I'd like to make some random comments about this rhyme:

From reading the comments posted on this thread, it appears that few people have included in their posts any acknowledgement of the fact that the words of "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" ridicules Chinese people. One poster who did recognize this was GUEST,Darren ex-West Bromwich; 18 Jan 08 - 11:05 PM. Darren posted this comment:

"My Dad taught this one to me and his Dad taught it to him. Obviously back in the day they had a a hatred for Asian people and made up songs to ridicule them"
-snip-

Another poster who recognized the "socially incorrect" nature of this apparently fondly remembered rhyme is GUEST,Hugh
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:22 PM who wrote:

"I remember a song I heard at summer camp in Canada in the 60s. Unthinkable that anyone would sing it now.

-snip-

Guest Hugh may have meant that he considers it unthinkable that this song would be sung in public at camp.

It would be interesting to see what Chinese people think of this rhyme.

I hope that if {since} this rhyme continues to be passed down to children that at the very least some acknowledgement of this fact is made by the adults who are carrying on this tradition. And I hope that those who pass this rhyme on to their children reinforce that it isn't good to make fun of people because of their race, ethnicity and/or nationality.

That said, I believe discussion threads like this one serve are important as they help document the variant texts of folk rhymes and folk songs. [See my earlier comments to this thread about the possible connection between "Once In China"... and other certain other children's rhymes].

I think that community folklorists, professional folklorists, and the general public have only begun to recognize the importance of text based Internet discussion forums such as Mudcat as a means of documenting, studying, and passing on the words to children's rhymes/songs and other folk songs. And, hopefully, in the immediate future, more and more people will also recognize the huge role that Internet sites such as YouTube can serve in helping to document, study, and disseminate not only the words,but also the tunes, and any performance activities of these examples of folk culture..

GUEST,Brian Fellows 16 Nov 07 - 05:11 PM appears to be the only person so far to post a URL to a YouTube video of "Once In China There Lived A Great Man". Along with that website address, Brian Fellows adked "I wonder if the tune is always the same?"

Here's the hyperlink to that YouTube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSLYYkEH_nM

For some reason that video clip is titled "Chewing Gum".

I searched for this rhyme on YouTube under its title, and there doesn't appear to be any entries of it as of this date.

-snip-

To some extent that posts is an example of my take on historical and also contemporary songs and rhymes that have could be said to be racially insensitive. I don't want those songs deleted from this forum, but I'm concerned that people might pass those songs on to another generation who may not understand that these songs contain culturally/racially insensitive terms.

Also, as an amateur folklorist, I'm interested in reading variants of rhymes. I'm glad when people post demographical information, and I'm interested in exploring possible connections between old songs and rhymes and contemporary songs and rhymes.

Furthermore, I'm concerned that an overwhelming majority of the posters to that "Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man" threads are guests to this forum and because they are guests they probably don't "get" that this forum presents historical songs and rhymes that may contain terms that are outdated and racially insensitive because of their historical, folkloric value.

In this threadRE: BS: Race & Socially Responsive Posting I wrote that I wish that Max would approve posting a disclaimer on the front page that indicated that certain songs/rhymes on this forum might contain culturally insensitive language but that these compositions were posted for the sake of history and for folkloric research. But whether such a disclaimer happens or not (and my sense is that it won't), I'll still post on Mudcat and continue to try to maintain a balance of folkloric study and societal concern when I consider something to be concerning and I recognize that everyone may not always agree with what I consider to be concerning.