The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #121107   Message #2645668
Posted By: Stringsinger
01-Jun-09 - 12:37 PM
Thread Name: Paul Whiteman-King of Jazz?
Subject: RE: Paul Whiteman-King of Jazz?
Azizi, Louis didn't get that much from Bunk. There were plenty of NO trumpet players around that could have influenced Louis. All you have to do is listen to the two styles of playing to know this.

Louis would never have sounded like Busse, Bunk or no Bunk. Jazz criticism is a lot of bunk period. The best index into the study of jazz is your own ears.

The idea that Whiteman was the "King of Jazz" is not only ridiculous but denegrating to the musicians who really played the music. If it wasn't for Bix, Lang, Venuti, Pinkatore and many of the real jazz musicians in that band, Whiteman would be a footnote in jazz history.As it was, the trumpet section had a note on their scores to wake Bix up at measure 43.

Diminished seventh chords were not a staple of the more folk-based early jazz. They were approximated to a limited degree by the early N.O. marching bands since they were used in Sousa Marches etc. But Bunk didn't do much with them. But Louis did.
Actually George Lewis did more with them then Bunk. Bunk's style was typical of the time, a strong lead centered around the tune to hold the band together with an absence of the solo of which Louis Armstrong was the pioneer.

King Oliver was Louis' main influence in Chicago. Also, Louis' mighty chops came out of his playing on the riverboats.

PDQ, I know Barbara. She is very knowledgeable. I've heard her many times.

Azizi, there is a fine six-string banjo player, Johnny St. Cyr who Louis loved. His accompaniment on "Heebie Jeebies" is innovative. I think that Django probably had heard him and might have induced him to take up the six-string banjo prior to the guitar.

Art, I don't hear any "schmaltz" from Bechet like you do with Benny Goodman. His wide New Orleans vibrato sounds different than the "krechts" you hear in Klez. I think Bechet's best work is earlier with the bands from N.O. although the French probably would not agree with me. The word out on "Bird" (the movie) is that Eastwood picked the worst day in Bird's life to depict it. Bird had a terrific sense of humor (evidenced in his playing) that was lost in Clint's gloomy story. Bird loved Woody Woodpecker and quoted him in his playing on occasion. Two major tragedies as junkies were Bird and Bill Evans, superlative musicians.

Aziz, the ODJB were out and out racists. They may have popularized black music ala Elvis to the white public but despite the fact they played well were not really representative of the New Orleans style of early jazz. Bix studied La Rocca but did far more with it. Bix might be credited for the so-called "modern" style of jazz which borrowed from the musical French impressionists such as Ravel and Debussey. His piano solo "In A Mist"
even predates Gershwin and has an unusual sophisticated and clairvoyance for it's time.

Jazz criticism is almost an oxymoron. Sometimes you have to take the oxy out.

The best thing is to really listen to the music. It tells you everything.

Frank