Well said Sourdough.

To surrender SOME freedom in exchange for security is, I think no bad thing. Given the way people are what would the effect of absolute freedom be, the negation of social responsibilty, anarchy, call it what you will.

In places around the globe where order has collapsed look at the result. In Siarra Leone 8 year old children are pressed in to a warlords army, is that an acceptable action to a free thinking mind.

I would much rather see a police car cruising past a school than a convoy of drug dealers and perverts. I would rather see a police task force formed in response to a murder or rape than a vigilante mob picking on the first person they saw.

I could rant all day to this, the phrase police state is I think overused, to try and apply it to the US or the UK is very poor judgement. In the UK I know that if I call the Prime minister a twat, no one will inform on me, with the result that I will be dragged off to enjoy a forced labour camp or a bullet in the brain.

If the tone of my post is a bit sharp, sorry its been a long month.

Rant rant rant ad nauseum.................

Sledge