The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #13133   Message #2681845
Posted By: GUEST,Roy McLean
16-Jul-09 - 08:32 PM
Thread Name: Origins: facts behind 'Roddy McCorley'
Subject: RE: Origins: facts behind 'Roddy McCorley'
Regarding whether Roddy McCorley was a protestant or not I would like to offer the following. I have relatives from the same area Roddy McCorley was from and over the years I have heard many stories about the 98 rebellion and characters involved in it. Here are some of the things I have heard and also discovered about Roddy and people he associated with. I will include personal "thoughts" where appropriate.

[1] He was a protestant rebel from Duneane. His mum was documented as being a presbyterian (parish record). However, the McCorley Family seem to have had a burial plot in the local Church of Ireland (COI)churchyard. This was later destroyed by vandals, but records of it still exist and I believe someone even has photos of various McCorley headstones. One of the last burials in the plot was a certain Rodger McCorley who was buried in 1760. This would appear to be Roddy's grandfather. Apparently the name "Rodger" ran in the McCorley family. Someone in the thread above mentions that catholics often used to be buried in prod church yards. I have consulted clergymen from both sides of the divide over this and they all regard it as being extremely unusual. The general consensus is that the catholic clergy in particular would have done their best to prevent it. Moreover, the idea that catholics could have held a family plot in a prod church yard was though to be basically impossible.

[2] Roddy's da is a rather vague figure. He owned a mill, but he disappeared from the scene very suddenly. Some people say he was transported for sheep stealing or because of his political beliefs. However, no record of his trial or subsequent transportation has ever been found. Interestingly, amongst local people there is a persistant rumour that all was not well in Roddy's family and that is was divided by a bitter dispute over land or property or something. Some people have linked Roddy's da's sudden disappearance to this dispute and indeed even Roddy's own later betrayal and capture. Anyway, after the departure of his da the mill passed to his da's brother, ie. Roddy's uncle. His mum subsequently remarried a presbyterian guy from Randalstown, a United Irishman(UI) called Orr. It was this man who inducted Roddy into the UIs.
THOUGHT: If Roddy's da owned a mill, he was most unlikely to have been a catholic because the Penal Laws of the time would not have allowed it. Some people have attempted to explain this by saying his da was not a mill owner , but merely a mill worker. However, if this were the case the mill could not have "passed" to Roddy's brother as it would not have been Roddy's da's to pass, as it were.

[3] After the rebellion, a number of rebels formed themselves into various bands rather than surrender, eg. The Dickson Crew, The Steele Gang, etc. One of the best known of these bands was the "Tommy Archer Gang". An ancester of mine was a member of this gang and another member of it was a certain Roddy McCorley. The gang leader, Tommy Archer was an interesting person who has been much missrepresented, not least by the Roddy McCorley society of West Belfast who describe him as a member of the catholic Defenders, but sure wasn't Mother Theressa a good prod, God bless her! Archer was a protestant shoemaker from Ballymena. He was also a member of the local militia. However, he appears to have become greatly impressed by the cause of the United Irishmen and he eventually rallied to their banner. By all accounts, he fought very bravely during the rebellion particularly at Antrim. I have heard two good songs about him. One in Donaghadee & Belfast and the other in Carrickfergus. Bizarrely, in one he is referred to as "Wullie" Archer. Don't think the Dubliners or Wolfetones will be recording either of them, though! Anyway, Archer and his boys became outlaws in order to survive, take revenge on certain individuals and gain money to further their cause. Yes, there may have been some private pocket lining, but certainly in Archer's own case he seems to have been a true "patriot" and revolutionary who genuinely believed in his cause and was not interested in personal wealth. The Archer Gang, of which Roddy was a member, were described by the authorities as being a group of around 8-10 "desperados", all presbyterians. Tommy Archer himself was later tried and executed in Ballymena. Tommy and Roddy had together both succeeded in escaping from government forces prior to their executions.

[4] It is worth noting that in the immediate aftermath of the rebellion quite a lot of the prod rebels had started to feel a certain resentment towards catholics. This was because of the following reasons: Firstly, they felt that the catholics had failed to really support them in the Ulster Rebellion; Secondly, the relatively few catholics (mainly Defenders)who had risen had either refused to fight, as at Ballinahinch or run away when things got tough, as at Antrim; Thirdly, catholics had acquired a growing reputation as informers. The catholic church had condemned the rebellion in no uncertain terms and ordinary catholics were being exhorted by their clergymen on a daily basis to betray the vile rebels; Lastly, the protestants were becoming increasingly turned off by the increasingly vicious sectarian flavour of "Catholic Irish Nationalism" as shown by the wholesale slaughter of prods by the Boys of Wexford and others. These feelings were a large part of what drove the prod descendents of the 98 rebels into the ranks of the Orange Order later on in the 1800s. THOUGHT: Anyway, back to the Archer Gang, I think the question must be asked - How likely is it that Roddy would have been welcomed into a closely knit gang of protestant exrebels if he had been a catholic, given the emotions of the time? Maybe he would have been. I am not sure.      

[5] After his capture Roddy is supposed to have said words to the effect, "If I had stayed among my own presbyterian folk I would never have been betrayed." Similar sentiments are attributed to him in the two poems, however, interestingly the word "own" has been ommitted in them. THOUGHT: If he did say the words, "my own presbyterian folk", this would be a strong indication that he considered himself a presbyterian.

{6} After Roddy's execution one of his buddies in the Archer Gang, a certain Sam Neill, is rumoured to have said perhaps in a foretaste of the great Jimmy Hendrix: "Twas a cruel shame what they did to Roddy, but ye can tell ma folk, didna worry there aint no hangman gonna put a tow rope around me." Interestingly, Neill was never caught. Some say he made it to America or France. Others that he lived out his days peacefully in another part of Ireland under an assumed name. I wish I knew.

[7] Regarding the Father Devlin business at Roddy's execution. I can find no mention of his presence at Roddy's execution either in newspapers or government reports. I feel his sudden appearance may have been an attempt by the catholic church or individual catholic romantics to "write themselves into" what was essentially in Ulster a "protestant rebellion". The catholic church, despite having forcefully condemned the rebellion, was very keen to exploit the rising tide of nationalist feeling that was growing among ordinary people. It did this by grossly exaggerating the role of catholic clergymen in the rebellion. Also, the asthetic, romantic catholic poets of the day would have felt much more "sexy" about themselves if they could have claimed to be part of 98. "Lets face it, its the sexiest show in town. All those lovely green jackets with gold trim. Why leave it to a lot of dour prods. Never mind that they did the fighting and dying."

[8]Of course, if Toome was as catholic then as it is today then there may not have been any prod clergy around and any self respecting catholic clergyman would probably have felt himself honour bound to attend to a dying fellow christian.

[9] Another point is that certain sections of the government would probably have been quite keen on portraying rebels as "mere catholics" in the hope that it would diminish them in the public eye. The prod rebellion had been a big shock to them. They had just lost America to the Scots-Irish and now they were about to lose Ireland or at least Ulster to them as well. They would rather pretend that it never happened. This was undoubtedly the reason behind the extension of the amnesty to most prod rebels after 98.

[10] Regarding the name "Roddy". This can be seen as a more informal version of Roderick, Roger or even Rodney. It can also be seen as an anglisation of the Gaelic name Ruaidhri particularly in Ireland or Scotland. Some people (Big Tim above)have also claimed it to be an informal version of Rory from Gaelic Ruairi. However, while it seems that names like Roddy, Rory, Roy, etc. share the same root in Gaelic of "red" something or other, it seems to me that Roddy(Ruaidhri) and Rory(Ruairi) are two distinct names. I only know of one Irish catholic called Roddy and that is Roddy Doyle, but I know quite a few Irish protestant Roddys. You would probably find that most catholic Roddys are named after Roddy McCorley rather than being called Roddy as a diminutive or informal rendering of Rory. I don't know any Rorys who are referred to as Roddy whatever religion they are. Roddy is much more common in Scotland than in Ireland. I think in relation to Roddy McCorley, the case for seeing the Roddy part of his name as standing for Rory(usually a catholic indicator in Ulster)is very weak, especially when he himself was officially named in government records as Rodger and that relatives of his were named Rodger on their tombstones.      

[11] I am well aware that most of the above is in the realm of folklore and hearsay and as such will be of little consolation to a man like Big Tim who craves hard facts. However, I have good news for Tim. Surely all this business about whether Roddy was a prod or not could be sorted by a quick look into the local church records under births, deaths and marriages. The catholic records do not go back very far, early 1800s if you are lucky, but the prod ones should go back much further. It should be very easy to work out what Roddy and his family's religous affiliation was. I would do it myself, but I happen to be far,far away across the foam at the moment.

Regards ( to Martin Ryan: I am looking into the Carrickfergus thing. More later. To "meself": How's your wrath?)

Regards