Barry, Hi I'm well aware of the progression of Sean O'Riada - Ceolteori Chualan - Chietains. And how the Bothy Band & Planxty were reguarded as the anti-christs by the Comhaltas Ceoltoiri Eireann Session Police (this is not to say that they don't do a good job in their field). If you can try to imagine Planxty performing in the style of Boyzone then you will have a fair idea of what I saw. I agree with what you say about inovation and growth. If enough people think that they are good enough then they will survive, if not then.......