There can be a big difference between "musical training" and making an effort to learn to play (or sing) well. Many people don't have formal training but learn a lot from instruction books and from listening to recordings. They also work their apprenticeships by playing or singing with others and talking to them about their techniques, tunings etc. Recording yourself playing or singing and listening to the playback can be quite salutory, and of course practice is crucial. One-to-one formal tuition can be helpful too, and it rarely does any harm, but it doesn't guarantee success - it needs to be combined with some of the things listed above.

There are, on the other hand, lazy musicians/singers who try to get by without doing any of the above, and we all know how they sound. I think, as has been implied above, that TV talent shows are adding to the problems, as many young people seem to believe that the important thing is to have bags of confidence, a good "image", and to reallyreallyreally WANT to be successful, to WANT it more than anything in the world, etc, etc. There's also the sloppy "good enough for folk" attitude, which has been discussed elsewhere.

But there are many respected players or singers (and we all know some of them too)who are largely or entirely self-taught. They are the ones who have worked hard and learned to use their instrument or voice to the best of their ability. It's not about how you learn, it's about whether you make the effort to learn at all.

Marje