Thank you Skippy for making my point for me, albeit unwittingly. Those of you accusing me of lacking a sense of humour missed that point by a mile. I get plenty of respect for my music thank you very much from people outside the 'folk'-scene, one of the reasons being that I treat them with respect. Sadly, my experience is that, for every hundred individuals in the 'folk' world who love the music and are willing to share it with anybody anywhere and anytime, there are five who have no respect, who love riding around on high horses criticising everything they even slightly disapprove of, especially the following: performers who don't meet their high critical standards (regardless of whether they themselves do or not - usually not), clubs which suffer the terrible disadvantage of not being their club, and - most offensively - any-one new to the music who'd like to have a go at it. I have known too may people who have gone to clubs and sessions once who have told me that they will never go again, having been embarrassed by the off-handedness with which they have been treated by the organisers. You can decide: are you involved in this music just to please yourselves? Fine,that's a reasonable choice, have fun: the chances are you'll make welcome any-one you meet who'd like a go at it, and you'll serve a wider purpose without even trying. Or have you chosen to make a specific effort to involve people in spontaneous music-making of a kind the mass-media specifically excludes them from? That too is a reasonable choice, if you can do it without patronising those people or having expectations of them they can't or don't want to meet. Sadly in this regard, I have known too many organisers who have taken steps to encourage local people to be involved in their activities, and, when they have failed, have blamed the locals for their apathetic attitude rather than question their own approach. This is the subject of another discussion: my point is that there is a tribalism in the folk-scene which forbids many performers and organisers from respecting any-one who comes to them from outside their charmed circle. That's why there is so much backbiting and backstabbing around, and good luck to you if you haven't come across any: it's driven many good people away. It's hardly surprising then that the music receives so little support from any-one else, and we fool ourselves if we believe that what we do, simply because a lot of us do it, is truely popular. It isn't: the vast majority of the population have little or no idea of what goes on with us. You only have to look at the T.V. and radio schedules, the newspaper's arts pages, the average music shop, and the newsagent's magazine racks to know that, not to mention the school curriculum and the karaoke pubs; and it's as much our own fault as the mass-media's for letting the folkie snobs who love to exploit the music for their own ends stand between it and its natural audience, who usually appreciate it and make something of it once they know what the music's really about,namely, people like themselves. It's ignorance which breeds the kind of mockery I complained of before (not Tim Leaning's joke, the other stuff), and that ignorance generally comes from two sources: misrepresentation by the media and our own unwillingness to represent ourselves to the public in a way that means something to it. Now if that's not important to you, then all of this is meaningless; but for many of us it is important, and we ought to give it some real, constructive, thought. I'm finally done: I'm sorry if this particularly bitter flow of bile strikes you as humourless, but then on this occasion I wasn't trying to be funny. Perhaps some-one could start a strand, if it hasn't already been started: the best and worst folkie jokes. Meanwhile - Skippy:go ahead, do what you want, don't let any-one stop you; learn the most important lesson that unaccompanied singing has to teach- the art of enjoying the sound of your own voice,the only musical instrument that no-one ever has to have made for them or pay for.