The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #124618   Message #2757443
Posted By: Jim Carroll
01-Nov-09 - 03:55 PM
Thread Name: BS: UK: Police State
Subject: RE: BS: UK: Police State
Right; the 'hysteria' bit seems to have disappeared down the sewer from whence it came (along with Teribus's horse-maiming slur), as you have still failed to produce one single example to back up your accusation.

"…..you have failed to respond to anything I've put before you…"
Nope, I've responded to everything you've said – you haven't actually made any points, you have expressed your faith in the reliability of the good-old British bobby, nothing more.

"You came into this thread making unverifiable one-sided accusations against the police…. "
One-sidedness does not enter the equation. Our police (both sides of the Irish Pond), have considerable powers that are not given to the rest of us; the right to arrest and detain, to stop and search, the power to enter and search our homes….. et al. If we, as ordinary citizens, complain of how they wield those powers, it is almost certain that those complaints will be investigated and dealt with by the police themselves. In the case of our legal system, a policeman's word will invaiably be believed in preference to that of any 'ordinary citizen'.
This thread is entirely about whether those powers should be extended.
   
"…. not a shred of verifiable evidence, just your own anecdotes"
I have described the incidents that I was personally involved exactly as they happened – it only remains for you to call me a liar (and, of course, provide the evidence for such an accusation).
As for the rest; the Brownhills deaths are a matter of record; I've cited two sources for this, and there are several more, if you would like to follow them up.
The killing of a Traveller lad in Ennis by a knife-carrying policeman's son, the subsequent conviction for manslaughter and the fact that no sentence has yet been passed, after - I think – at least twelve months – (it took at least as long as that to bring the case to trial), are a matter of public record and were widely reported in the local and national press; as are the events surrounding the execution of Traveller John Ward by a farmer (Nolan, I think, but I could be wrong).

"….. together with thinly veiled hints that all of the records had been destroyed by the police ……"
Sorry, must have missed that one – where did I say, or even suggest this? I have no idea whether these incidents were recorded by the police, let alone destroyed.

"Now to the real nub of all of this - you conveniently omitted a salient, highly relevant fact about a very serious crime, and its outcome, in order to make it fit your anti-authority agenda."
You appear to be clinging to my mistake (that's what it was) as a drunk clings to a lamp-post for support. I have acknowledged it was a mistake on my part and apologised for the same. As I have already said, I would have been extremely foolish to try and deliberately pass off such a piece of misinformation concerning such a well-known incident. Once again, it it appears you are calling me a liar – seems to be the way you handle unpalatable facts.
I have said that I did not realise that burglary carried the death penalty – you apparently think it does, or if it doesn't, it should.   

"…..that such an omission might cause readers to doubt the veracity of the rest of your attack on the police."
Or on the other hand – it might create a smokescreen in order to hide the real issues of this thread, the power held by our lawmakers and enforcers, how they use them and whether they should be extended.

"You then changed your story and tried to pretend you'd 'forgotten' these major details of the issue which I had corrected you over."
The only detail I got wrong was that I stated that Tony Martin was acquitted – do you have anything to back up your claim that I pretended to forget 'these major details', other than the fact that you appear to be accusing me of being a habitual liar?
"Your response was to accuse me of calling you a liar….."
Where did I call you a liar? So far, you are then one suggesting that anybody is telling lies (won't hold my breath waiting for an answer to this one either).

The rest of your posting is somewhat empty invective and really not worth bothering with.

Jim Carroll