The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #124681   Message #2761938
Posted By: GUEST,Allan Connochie
08-Nov-09 - 04:05 AM
Thread Name: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
Subject: RE: BS: American English usages taking over Brit
"Re- United Kingdoms"

I honestly can't recall ever hearing any Scot, whether nationalist or not, use the term 'United Kingdoms' to desribe anything relating to modern times. Likewise I'd imagine the vast majority of Scots regard Scotland as a nation whether they are nationalists or not. The fact is we are a single kingdom which is made up of several nations and countries - so usage of United Kingdom by Nats simply reflects the present reality.

Northern Ireland has never been a kingdom it is true but that doesn't stop the present name from being the United Kingdom. The UK in the official title reflects the union between the kingdoms of GB and Northern Ireland which was the successor to the 1801 union between GB and Ireland. Ireland of course was formerly a kingdom even if it was a forced one. When James VI of Scotland succeeded Elizabeth of England he not only became King of England but also became King of Ireland. I'm not 100% up on the English/Irish history but I think up until Henry VIII or so, Ireland was treated as a Lordship of the English monarch but he assumed Kingship of Ireland. I've maybe got the wrong English monarch there but I think the time period is close.

The point about the republican thing is interesting. The monarchy is still relatively popular. Within the SNP there are many Republicans but officially the party's position is monarchist. I think if they succeeded in their goal for independence then it wouldn't be long before the constitutional question re the moanrchy came to the fore. It is two seperate issues of course and I take it putting the monarchy question on the back burner means they don't risk alienating monarchists.

I imagine we will get a better idea as to how Scots will progress during the next UK government's term. The situation within Scotland is a strange one in that at Hollyrood level the most bitter political enemies are the SNP and Labour - however at UK level the Tories are much more unpopular in Scotland. So if we get a Tory UK government going head to head against an SNP administration in Edinburgh then politically within Scotland I can see only one winner there and it wouldn't be David Cameron. Interestingly he's half Scottish but like Tony Blair before him doesn't push his Scottish connections at all.