I'm not sure Matt's point is as a result of ultra-rationalism.

I get a mad shiver down my spine when listen to English singer Peter Bellamy. I also get it when I listen to American singer Dock Boggs or Indian sarod player Ajmad Ali Khan or Scottish singer Lizzie Higgins (or Anglo-Franco-Aussie prog behemoths, Gong!)...

I love the writing of William Boyd and Graham Greene and many other English authors but equally Americans Harry Crews and TC Boyle. And so on.

I don't get why shared nationality should give me an extra frisson that should be missing when it comes to art and music created by people from other countries. And I'm not sure what I'm missing by not having a differently calibrated, um, frisson generator. I wonder, Mark, if Englishness is simply a more tangible concept for you than it is for me? Maybe you also feel more shame at the parts of English culture and history you struggle with than I do, too? It's an interesting area - the psychology of nationhood, I suppose you could call it.

I get that extra frisson if I read something or listen to something that's fantastic by someone I personally know, but that's not about abstract concepts of nationhood, its about the pleasure in enjoying from a friend's skill and creativity. Maybe some people feel that way about everyone within their national boundary? I dunno.

The one area where I think I might understand what you are experiencing is in the landscape. When I am stomping up Scafell Pike or Kinder Scout or round Malham, I get a real sense of overwhelming and almost giddy exhilaration and wellbeing. I get this at some of the wilder coastal areas too. I don't get this, though, in English cities and towns, most of the flat bits, pretty chocolate-boxy bits or the boring bits in between. I fully accept that others do. I can't say it's confined to England either - I've had the same feeling in the Himalayas, the Western Ghats ands the Australian Grampians. But my point is, maybe the sensation is the same, and maybe we all attach to different things. I'm not sure I'd call the sensation pride, but I could imagine that for some people, national pride might not feel dissimilar. Doesn't do it for me though!