The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #125426   Message #2782579
Posted By: Bill D
06-Dec-09 - 11:36 PM
Thread Name: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
The problem with Ake is not the specific facts he quotes, many of which 'may' be accurate, but with what assumptions he and many others make about what conclusions can be drawn from data.

That is: one can state that there is 'higher incidence of HIV in certain populations' or that 'no one has found the "gay gene" yet' or even that 'specific sexual practices may make it easier to contract AIDS'.........but those (if they are true) are simply data!

None of these assumptions says anything relevant about the **moral** relevance of homosexuality! There are many human practices which are 'dangerous'...like rock climbing...or military service! But few would suggest that we ban or discriminate against those who indulge!

Ake...and others who are indignantly flinging data about are also implicitly suggesting that homosexuality IS a choice, that it is somehow immoral (was it immoral BEFORE HIV?), and that defending the rights of homosexuals is the same as promoting it.

There is this shifting back & forth from one asertion to another when they are challenged, creating a circular argument as they answer one rebuttal with a re-statement of a previously discredited claim....

You see what is happening? Ake...and others ...have a predetermined notion of what the truth NEEDS to be, so they use rhetoric and cherry-picking of facts to try to prop up their argument.
If we typed 47 paragraphs explaining WHY HIV affects a larger % of homosexual men than 'straight' men, and why it proves nothing relevant to any moral question, he would just switch the focus and eventually either just deny our conclusions or toss out some other set of 'facts' from some study done by some group which also has a predetermined 'answer' to promote!

YOU CANNOT WIN when debating those whose mind is made up at the beginning....all you can do it put some reasonable points out so that others might see them.... and several have done a pretty good job of that.

(sheesh... I wish I had typed all that when I wasn't so tired. I don't think I said it very well...but maybe I got across what a flawed argument form Ake is using.)