But, Carol, whenever I have pointed out that just one determined Caliphater, if just a bit more efficient than the shoe-bomber or the Xmas day underpanter, could be enough to cause a lot of damage & grief - let alone a smallish cell like the 9/11 lot, who DID! - in ♠♠♠ & can you deny it? - your response has always, consistently, been, no, once we've pulled out of their bit of the world we can stop worrying about them, they will just be marginalised.

MtheGM, I do appreciate that you have expressed the desire to discuss this issue without making it personal. I would also appreciate it if you would make an effort to know what I have said before you respond to it. If you can find any post of mine in which I have said that there are no Muslims who say they want a universal caliphate, or that there are some, but they will be marginalized, I invite you to post it for me to see.

What I have said, and if you were really familiar with my posts, you would know this, is that if there are any who are saying that they want a universal caliphate, once the Western governments cease their interference in Muslim countries, all of their energies will be focused on what is being done in the Muslim countries. It will be a whole new ballgame in the Muslim countries, and suddenly, messing with Western countries will become very boring, and those who are now zealous about spreading Islam to the West will lose interest in that, and will be far more interested in what is going on in the Muslim countries. The zealots will be more interested in trying to influence what goes on in the Muslim countries than they will be in what people on the Western countries do or don't do.


why have you such faith in the bona fides of Bin Laden & his Al Quaeda followers as to believe implicitly their asseverations that 'the West out of their bit' is all they want, thank you, and when they have achieved that they will just get on with establishing their Faith in their own part of the world and leave ours alone

Because their track record has shown that this is what they do. When bin Laden was leading the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, he said that his goal was to end Soviet imperialism in Afghanistan. After the Soviets left that country, the Mujahideen did not follow them to Russia. They accomplished their objective and turned their attentions to their next goal, which was to end Western Imperialism in Muslim countries. Once that goal is met, the next goal will be to try to influence what happens in Muslim countries in the absence of Western imperialism. They'll have a whole new world to create in their part of the globe. It's going to be a big job, and it will occupy all of their energies and attention.


when the fact of our having done so will so clearly have demonstrated to them that their way of insidiously annoying us into collaboration with their will has paid off such dividends? Won't the Caliphaters among them [at least you seem now to have withdrawn your point that there are not any such] whisper into Osama's ear "Why stop there, Os-me-old-dear!"...?

What dividends? The only dividend they will get is to be free of Western interference in their countries. They will have no incentive to waste the opportunity to get on with rebuilding their part of the world just so they can create devilment in other people's countries. That makes no sense at all.