Keith, you're straight back at it again.

When did anyone ever claim that HIV was NOT a disease that affected predominantly gay men in the West? Hmm? When did anyone ever deny that? Hmm? Show us!

Ake and GfS and others argue that it is the *fault* of gay men, that it is only a problem for gay men, that gay men need to be in some way controlled or punished - not helped or supported. They argue that homosexuality is uniquely harmful.

The point others have been making is that in the wider scheme of things, it is a much bigger problem for heterosexual people. You make a big deal of how HIV is increasing again amongst gay people - you talk about a 74 percent increase over 8 years. You say this to support the bigots. You say increase is important but not the heterosexual increase of 500% over the same period. Absurd double standards. If you're going to support a position in which you don't believe, you could at least be consistent about it.

Ake, it is ALL about education and condom-use. Dr. de Cock said that, and you like his views. All the people who get HIV through sex - the gay ones, the straight ones, the black ones - they all got it because they didn't use a condom and/or didn't use it properly.

Ake, GfS, you want to exact some sort of social control or punishment or enforcement on gay people. Tell us what you mean. Take a room of 1,000 gay people - 960 of whom are not and will never be HIV+. What is your plan for all these people. what should their punishment or peculiar treatment be? Hmm?

I posted links to just a few of the outreach groups working tirelessly within gay communities and to find the hidden closet-cases. If any of you really cared about this issue, you would get your credit cards out and make a donation. Write to your MP to demand more funding. Will you? I doubt it.

Keith, still haven't found a point yet? I never thought you would. Just neutral statistics, eh?

Well, if this debate is now down the rump of Ake, Keith and GfS, then I think the case is closed. We are just going around in circles now.