Merely observing Sugarfoot that the categoric statement that torture does not work is wrong.

Now in the instance I gave "Operation Awkward"

If I have somebody who may or may not have mined my ship and I have to find out if he has or not. I am faced with risking the lives of my shipmates and messmates against infringing the human rights of the attack swimmer we have caught, then I am afraid there is no question at all that them thar human rights is going to be infringed. And the one thing he will know with absolute certainty is that he will be going down with the ship if that mine blows.

Let's face it, we can hardly complain about the treatment metered out to allied soldiers in the theatre when the gloves are off can we? No point in having a moral stance if the enemies is making life difficult for you is there?

No point at all in complaining, we have absolutley no control over what our enemies will do. My son who has now done a number of tours out in Afghanistan has always been told do not expect to survive capture, and numerous grisley videos exist to support that assumption. Should this fate befall him or any of his colleagues the torture and mistreatment will have been carried out for amusement, for entertainment and for propaganda. There would be no attempt to question for intelligence gathering or to obtain any information.

How are the Taliban that have been taken prisoner that my son has had personal experience of? They are bound and hooded, identified, photographed, given a meal, medically examined, and more often than not depending on transport they are turned loose. They will be picked up again in a couple of weeks or months and this happens regularly, my son and his mates refer to them as "frequent flyers", they do not fight very hard, they have no information to give and nine times out of ten the only reason they were with the Taliban at all was because their families were threatened if they did not turn out to fight.

Ah so all the worlds ills are down to capitalism are they Sugarfoot, funny that in country's that embraced it you find the best standard of living and quality of life. And I don't see us imposing anything on anybody, globalisation is a fact of life get used to it.