i have twodifferent issues.first how many realize that the uk was convicted of torture before the european court for water boarding and other ttechniques.it was british special forces units that tought the americans the techniques they used in gitmo. britain has not amended its laws to cindorm to eu human right standards and can hence not fully participate in the eu.

torture has no use for civilized society.   in bridges silly scenario that could never really hapen a soldier or police man would likely break the law, however the law should be the same for all.   powerfull regimes like the british and american empires always torture anyone once you give permission to torture the people who do it torture anyone they don't like. you cannot alow this and maintain a democratic society.

as to carol c, she is totally misleading people as many pro islamic do that the status of "people of the book" means equality. they aren't killed and they can practice their religion but they cannot have any religious symbols appear in public, they must not walk on a side walk when a muslim is on the side walk, they can't hold any job with authority over a muslim, they cannot sue a muslim in court, they can't proseltize nor can they marry a muslim and they are restricted in their business occupations from most areas of higher learning or skilled trades. all this is in the koran or the hadith. many coutries have even more restrictive rules.   oh yeah they have to pay a head tax every year for being non muslims.

all these are major human rights violatons. anyone interested should read"the legacy of jihad" an historical study that extensively quotes from the major islamic clerics and jurisat throughout history,it includes especially the liberals. you will be shocked by the positions taken by the mystic al gallali and others.   yeah they don't kill people of the book but that's a standard so low it does not pass any modern test.

i sometimes thinbk that peole who support these laws should reci8eve them in our democracies and if they want full civil rights they should have to sign a declaration of support for the human rights declaration of the united nations.