The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #126347   Message #2856039
Posted By: Gibb Sahib
04-Mar-10 - 01:40 PM
Thread Name: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
Charley,

Given the details supplied by Lighter, above, I doubt any correspondence between the two "Row" songs. (Incidentally, I really think "roll" must be the proper word in "Liverpool Judies")

I was about to join you on some topical verses of "Leave Her Johnny," but then I realized how little computer jargon I know, and less to rhyme with! Must be because I use a Mac ;)

And guys, I do have a YouTube chantey collaboration in the works, FYI, which will feature two other Mudcatters :)

John,

Great start. Though it may not fit your methodology (perhaps you've already discarded it), I'll remind you anyway of the book LANDSMAN HAY, in which the very chanty-like stevedore song "Grog time of day" was supposedly heard from stevedores in Jamaica in 1811. This is the text that Hugill "discovered. It looks like it was not published until 1953, being the memoirs of Robert Hay, 1789-1847. I've never had my hands on the book. But assuming these pre-1847 memoirs exist somewhere, they are notable. Well, what is notable is that the song really fits into the "classic" chanty form and that such a form was existing as early as 1811. Also notable is the possibility that such a form was at that time distinct (or fairly distinct) to either a specific region or specific ethnic group. Because the way in which it is described is as if "others" were engaged in the practice. The exact nature of the working of cargo is not stated. A capstan is mentioned, but I am not sure if this means that the cargo was hoisted by a line attached to the capstan. In Parrish's Georgia Sea Island study, the stevedores hoisted the cargo in a halyards-like way.

"Grog time of day" reminds me very much of the chanty "One More Day," in its phrasing and form.

A slight tangent:
"Sally Rackett"/"Haul er Away" is notably similar (in tune) to the well-known Jamaican song "Hill and Gully Rider." That is not to say that is necesariily came from a Jamaican song; I don't know its history, and it may have been the other way around. However, I do know that "Hill and Gully" was a work song, and that it was timed in the fashion of what are called "digging songs." The rhythm works in these songs such that (if we are consider the meter to be of four beats) the [fourth beat] cues the raising of pick axes (or whatever they did with?) so that they can come down and strike on beat ONE.

Hill and gully ri-[der]
ch. HILL and gully

It would work well as a rowing song, too, which is how they use it in the film version of Moby Dick.

This of course was a "single pull" type form. The fact that "Sally Racket" has very similar verses to "Cheerly, Men," another single-pull, makes me wonder.