I've been trying to keep out of these threads, but I'd like to add a UK perspective to a few points.

I think Joe O is a) very fortunate in the dioceses he describes, b) describing a tolerant and forward looking type of church setup that quite frankly I just don't recognise, c) sounds like a real Christian person, doing his his best.

I got out in the mid-80s after 15 years as an active lay adult in England, when it became apparent that the church (over here at least) was rapidly lurching back from the progress made in Vatican 2. Self & spouse were always on the extreme liberal wing, and read widely - the names that spring to mind were Schillebeeckx (sp?) and Kung.

But always lurking in the background was the figure of the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith - a certain Cardinal Ratzinger - who even back then seemed to be applying the brakes as hard as he could. It became easier for him after the demise of Paul VI.

We were friends with an ex-professor from one of the Rome colleges - Hubert Richards - whose original surname indicated his German origins; and he was also warning of the conservatism to come if his compatriot reached high places.

The English church is not that autonomous, Joe: IMO there is much more emphasis on the universality and uniformity aspects of the church, and bishops have had their knuckles rapped for not falling into line. Many like us, who could no longer see any forward movement, simply gave up.

Now we live in an area of England where Catholicism never died out: it was tolerated and hidden but always there through the proscribed years. That gives a totally different slant to the perception of local clergy, who still (OK some of them, probably) have a fortress mentality. Any innovation is regarded with deep suspicion.

As to the child abuse thing, my spouse, who went through the whole education system / altar boy thing, says he never encountered anything of the sort himself. Nor did I perceive any oddity in the various priests we encountered.
It did however leave him with a very odd view of "normal" man-woman relations which has taken many years to accept and reverse.
Not aided by stupidities like the small print of Humanae Vitae.

I was long ago forced to the conclusion that the celibacy rule (which is a late, and arguably spurious add-on) did nothing for the healthy development of Catholics in general and their pastors in particular.

Paws