The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #128156   Message #2881530
Posted By: Joe Offer
07-Apr-10 - 02:19 PM
Thread Name: BS: Clerical child abuse Part 94....
Subject: RE: BS: Clerical child abuse Part 94....
Jim Carroll, I think it's clear that especially in Ireland, certain powerful elements in the Catholic Church haughtily considered themselves and their church to be above the law. No question there - and it happened in certain sections of the US, too. I think this was the case in Ireland because the nation was so universally Catholic. Religions behave themselves better when they have competition, and when they do not have close ties to government. It's clear that the Catholic Church and the Irish government were in bed together - and that's been the case in many "Catholic" nations. In Spain and Portugal and many Latin American nations, this has led to Church support of dictators and the wealthy.

In the US, where the Catholic Church is large but still a minority, the Church has tended be more likely to speak out for justice on labor and immigration issues, civil rights, peace, and a number of other things.

But in Ireland and other Catholic countries, it has seemed that the Catholic Church was a functionary of the government - or (especially in Ireland) that the government was a functionary of the Catholic Church. There are elements of that in Poland, too.

Still my point in the other message was about Canon Law, which you unfairly painted as a separate system of law that was meant to supersede civil law - and that's not the case. There may be a few areas where canon law is in contradiction with the laws of some nations; but for the most part, canon law covers only internal church functions and issues. Canon Law is the code of internal regulations of the Catholic Church. And there is nothing in Canon Law that permits or condones the molestation or abuse of children.

Also, I think that in most cases, it is erroneous to point to Rome as the responsible party in the coverup or failure to discipline in child molestation cases. Rome HAS stepped in as of late because of the failure of local dioceses, but this sort of matter is in general the responsibility of the local bishop. This is due to that fact that local bishops are largely autonomous. It does appear that in Ireland, the archbishops in Dublin and Armagh held much tighter control than you'll see in other countries. The US Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) is a loose affiliation of independent bishops. They sometimes agree to act together, but generally are fierce in holding onto their independence. In Ireland, it appears that until very recent times, the Catholic Church was ruled quite strictly by the Archbishop of Dublin and the Primate of All Ireland in Armagh. Poland also has a particularly strong Primate. If there is a Primate of the Catholic Church in the United States, it's merely a titular office. The President of the USCCB, currently Francis Cardinal George of Chicago, does serve as a spokesman for the US bishops, but doesn't wield a whole lot of power outside his archdiocese. There was a time when the archbishops of many major Catholic cities in the US were in bed with the city government, particularly in Boston, Chicago, New York, and Philadelphia. And yes, this did lead to city police departments ignoring crimes committed by priests. That hasn't been the case in the US for a long time, however.


The National Catholic Reporter has an excellent editorial on this issue. I think it clearly reflects the thinking of progressive American Catholics. Most of us progressive Catholics have been Catholics all our lives, and we want to think well of our Church. We've known a lot of good in our church, but we've also seen some of the bad. We want to believe that there is some rational explanation for what happened, and for why the bishops failed to put a stop to this scandal fifty years ago. So far, the bishops have not given an explanation that satisfies me.
anyhow, here's the text of the National Catholic Reporter editorial:

-Joe-
This article is right on the borderline of our one-screen (32-inch) size allowance for copy-pastes, but I think it's still within the limit.

Oh, and we haven't heard the end of the sordid story of Fr. Marcial Maciel, founder of the Legion of Christ. Click here for more.