The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #128796   Message #2886927
Posted By: Bill D
14-Apr-10 - 11:54 PM
Thread Name: BS: 'Near Death? It's a Gas!'
Subject: RE: BS: 'Near Death? It's a Gas!'
(I've been trying to tell 'em that, Janie....*grin*...thanks)

well...it is too late in the evening..(remember, you have 3 hours on me.)... to wax eloquent on this:

"Are there things you feel are absolutely unknowable? How can you tell?"

Let me just say that I was once told "nothing is impossible".... and my reply was something like..."can you sharpen an axe on a peeled banana?" Wasn't gonna bet 100%, but 99.99+∞ is good odds.

There are a number of classes of things I 'suspect' are unknowable, and which are at present unknowable in the sense that we have no real way to even describe how we would go about 'knowing' them, and what form the debate about whether we DID know them would take. *(That is is why my assertion said "basically unknowable".)*

Think of this... the largest class of things in the universe (using the word 'things' in a general way) is facts...not data, as that implies 'collected & organized facts'. Every atom & collection of atoms in the universe could be described in part by its relation, in myriad ways, to every other atom. "There is a butterfly in Brazil that is between 150 and 155 million light years from **something** in galaxy NGC235...etc." Is this 'fact' knowable? Maybe. How about electrical synapses that we debate? They can be measured...sort of... but can we 'know' everything about all their patterns?
See why I assert that many things are unknowable? I can't deny the some god "created the Universe", but I have no idea how one would 'know' it were true....even if God came down (whatever that means) and told us in all human languages that he had, how would we 'know' that it wasn't mass hysteria or a cosmic joke?

The entire field of epistemology has grappled with this for centuries, and the best it can do is suggest what types of things ARE knowable. So far, I assume you, Amos, are with me...but when I list certain types of things as unknowable, I get constructs about "entire spectrum of awarenesses and capabilities that is manifested across the species.", and I assume you are exempting some prized concepts from the list of 'unknowable'.

(good thing I am too tired to wax MORE eloquently, huh?)

short answer...sure- some stuff just don't have no handle and cain't be dissected and explained.