The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #24962   Message #288948
Posted By: Malcolm Douglas
31-Aug-00 - 10:18 PM
Thread Name: Lyr Add: Lord Beichan and Susie Pye
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Lord Beichan and Susie Pye
Here are a few cross-references:

On the DT:

Lord Bateman Text as recorded by some band called "Golden Ring" (no original source given), tune from Cecil Sharp's 100 English Folksongs (1916)

Lord Beichan and Susie Pye From Ancient Scottish Ballads, (Kinloch; no date given) with tune.

The Turkish Lady From Songs the Whalemen Sang, (Huntington; no date given), with tune. Not really related.

In the Forum:

Lord Bateman query Some discussion of the (supposed) historical background.

Entries at The Traditional Ballad Index:

: Young Beichan

The Turkish Lady [Laws O26]

At Lesley Nelson's Child Ballads site:

Lord Bateman Version from Cecil Sharp's 100 English Folksongs, with tune. Collected by Sharp from Henry Larcombe (82) at Haselbury Plucknett, Somerset, in 1905.

There are a large number of broadside versions at Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads: too numerous to mention at this time of night. May be found by searching for Lord Bateman and Lord Beigham.

Any chance of a tune belonging to the text you've posted?

Malcolm
Traditional Ballad Index Entry added by Joe Offer:

Young Beichan [Child 53]

DESCRIPTION: A young lord is taken prisoner by a foreign king. The king's daughter frees him after receiving a promise that he will wed her in seven years. Seven years later she comes to England to see him being married. When he sees her, he marries her instead
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1783 (Jamieson-Brown)
KEYWORDS: wedding marriage promise courting prison escape
FOUND IN: Britain(Scotland,England) US(Ap,MW,NE,NW,SE,So) Canada(Mar,Newf)Ireland
REFERENCES (40 citations):
Child 53, "Young Beichan" (14 texts, 1 tune) {Bronson's #94}
Bronson 53, "Young Beichan" (113 versions plus 9 in addenda)
BarryEckstormSmyth pp. 106-122, "Lord Bateman" (5 texts, all very full, 2 tunes) {Bronson's #8, #87}
Randolph 11, "Lord Bateman" (4 texts plus a fragment, 3 tunes) {A=Bronson's #3, C=#44, E=#7}
Randolph/Cohen, pp. 25-28, "Lord Bateman" (1 text, 1 tune -- Randolph's 11E) {Bronson's #7}
Eddy 10, "Young Beichan" (1 text)
Gardner/Chickering 49, "Lord Bateman's Castle" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #80}
Flanders/Brown, pp. 204-208, "Lord Bakeman" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #11}
Flanders/Olney, pp. 54-57, "Lord Bakeman" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #1}
Davis-Ballads 12, "Young Beichan" (7 texts plus 2 fragments; the fragments, especially "I," might perhaps be "The Turkish Lady"; 2 tunes entitled "Lord Bateman and the Turkish Lady, or The Turkish Lady," "The Turkish Lady"; 3 more versions mentioned in Appendix A) {Bronson's #55, #47}
Davis-More 16, pp. 102-110, "Young Beichan" (3 texts, 2 tunes)
BrownII 14, "Young Beichan" (5 texts plus mention of 1 more)
Chappell-FSRA 7, "Lord Bateman" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #35}
Hudson 8, pp. 75-76, "Young Beichan" (1 text)
Creighton/Senior, pp. 26-34, "Young Beichan" (4 texts plus 1 fragment, 3 tunes) {Bronson's #64, #3, #13}
Greenleaf/Mansfield 7, "Lord Ateman" (1 text)
Leach, pp. 169-174, "Young Beichan" (2 texts)
Wyman-Brockway I, p. 58, "Lord Batesman, or the Turkish Lady" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #98}
Friedman, p. 128, "Young Beichan (Lord Bateman)" (1 text)
OBB 44, "Young Bekie"; 45, "Young Beichan"; 164, "The Loving Ballad of Lord Bateman" (3 texts)
Warner 43, "Lord Bateman" (1 text, 1 tune)
Sharp-100E 6, "Lord Bateman" (1 text, 1 tune)
Niles 22, "Young Beichan" (1 text, 1 tune)
Gummere, pp. 256-259+356-357, "Young Beichan" (1 text)
Sharp/Karpeles-80E 10, "Lord Bateman (Young Beichan)" (1 text, 1 tune, slightly edited) {Bronson's #14}
Copper-SoBreeze, pp. 276-277, "Lord Bateman" (1 text, 1 tune)
Ritchie-SingFam, pp. 100-102, "[Turkish Lady]" (1 text, 1 tune)
Hodgart, p. 41, "Young Beichan (Lord Bateman)" (1 text)
DBuchan 7, "Young Bicham"; 8, "Young Bekie" (2 texts, 1 tune in appendix) {Bronson's #112}
MacSeegTrav 8, "Young Beichan" (2 texts, 2 tunes)
TBB 2, "Young Beichan" (1 text)
HarvClass-EP1, pp. 84-86, "Young Bicham" (1 text)
Abrahams/Foss, pp. 101-103, "Lord Bateman" (1 text, 1 tune)
SHenry H470, p. 491, "Lord Beichan" (1 text, 1 tune)
LPound-ABS, 14, pp. 33-36, "Lord Bayham" (1 text)
JHCox 8, "Young Beichan" (3 text plus mention of 1 more)
JHCoxIIA, #7A-C, pp. 22-31, "A Turkish Lady," "Turkish Lady," "Lord Wetram" (3 texts, 3 tunes) {Bronson's #54, #53, #93}
Darling-NAS, pp. 67-69, "Lord Bateman" (1 text)
Silber-FSWB, p. 212, "Lord Bateman" (1 text)
DT 53, LORDBATE* LRDBEICH* (The DT editors also list TURKLADY* as Child 53, but it belongs with Laws O26)

Roud #40
RECORDINGS:
Ollie Gilbert, "Lord Batesman" (on LomaxCD1707)
Aunt Molly Jackson, "Lord Bateman" (AFS; on LC57)
Willie Mathieson, "The King's Daughter" (on FSBBAL1)
Pleaz Mobley, "Lord Bateman" (AFS L 12, 1937; on LC12) {Bronson's #97}
Thomas Moran, "Lord Bateman" (on FSB4, FSBBAL1)
New Lost City Ramblers, "Lord Bateman" (on NLCR14)
Balis Ritchie, "Lord Bateman and the Turkish Lady" (on Ritchie03)
Jean Ritchie, "Lord Bateman" (on JRitchie01)
Jeannie Robertson, "Lord Bateman" (on FSB4, FSBBAL1)
Mary Sullivan, "Lloyd Bateman" (AFS; on LC57)
Joseph Taylor, "Lord Bateman" (cylinder, on HiddenE) {Bronson's #34}
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "The Turkish Lady" [Laws O26]
cf. "Mustang Gray (The Maid of Monterey)" (plot)
cf. "Thomas o Yonderdale" [Child 253] (plot)
ALTERNATE TITLES:
Lord Beham
Susan Price
Lord Batesman
Notes: This song is commonly connected with the story of Gilbert Becket, the father of Thomas (the clerical adversary of England's Henry II). But, although the song's widespread currency implies that it is old, it is unlikely that it is that old.
Child believed that it may have been affected by the Becket legend, but was probably independent.
The plot very much resembles "The Turkish Lady" [Laws O26], and some scholars lump them, but the latter emphasizes the conversion of the princess rather than, as in this song, her pursuit and reunion.
A minor footnote: In the Scottish "Young Beichan" texts, the Turkish girl is typically called "Susan (Susie) Pye," with no obvious derivation that I can see. But in the more numerous "Lord Bateman" texts, she is usually "Sophia." But "Sophia" (Greek for "wisdom") is not a Turkish name. Perhaps the girl had more reasons than love for wanting to escape. One might even speculate that she had (or that some singer intended her to have) a Christian mother. Or that she would rather marry an infidel than live in a harem.
And, yes, that's an awfully long chain of inference to hang on one name.... - RBW
File: C053

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