The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #129116 Message #2896827
Posted By: Genie
29-Apr-10 - 03:54 PM
Thread Name: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
Subject: RE: BS: 'Your papers, please' - for US citizens?
Astute comment, that, Art. *g*
GfS, you and some others (mostly of the male persuasion) keep saying it's no big deal to "always" carry your ID card (in your wallet, etc.). But I wonder if you really do, and if so, how big a risk you're taking of identify theft, if that ID card contains all the info an identity thief would need. Or how big a risk you're taking of a MAJOR ordeal should that card be lost?
Do you have your ID card on your person when you're swimming or water skiing or when you're in the shower at the gym. Aren't there some situations where you don't carry a wallet? For women it can be even more problematic, because we often carry a purse instead of a wallet, and that can mean the contents are more vulnerable to loss of theft since it's not always on our person.
Aside from the fact of pockets being picked, anything you routinely carry with you is more vulnerable to loss or theft than something you keep, say, in a safety deposit box or a safe place at home. That's why people have such safe places to keep really valuable, hard-to-replace documents.
Canadian citizens working in the US with a "green card" are advised NOT to carry it with them, but to keep it in a secure location, since it is so hard and time-consuming (and expensive) to replace it, and it has such a high black market value. I think the same goes for things like birth certificates, passports (when you're in your own country), and other documents that contain more "secure identity" info than most driver licenses do.
It's reasonable to expect people to carry such ID as is relevant to the situation. E.g., driver license when driving, making certain monetary transactions, flying, purchasing alcohol (if you look young), applying for a job, etc. Social Security card when applying for benefits, applying for a job, etc. Passport when travelling outside your country of residence. Birth certificate when applying for Social Security Benefits and in a few other situations where verification of your age, parentage, etc. is important. But I think it's a violation of the Fourth Amendment to allow law enforcement to "search" people by demanding that they present such sensitive documents unless they have "probable cause" that a crime is being or has been committed. They should have to cite specifically what violation you are suspected of and on what grounds (e.g., the sworn testimony of someone else, or tangible evidence). And even in a case where there is probable cause, it is undue harassment to just arbitrarily make you stop what you're doing, take you into custody, book you, etc., if the ID documents they seek could be produced within hours or days without depriving you of your liberty or property (e.g., income) in the process.
Yes, I have my driver license on me 99% of the time when I'm away from my home. I also have credit cards, my cell phone, Kaiser card, asthma inhaler, kleenex, glasses, lipstick, pens, & misc. keys with me too. But I'm not required to carry those, nor would I choose to (except for the asthma inhaler) if I just wanted to take a walk for a few miles. I hate to think of the US becoming a place where you're not allowed to just bike or walk to a friend's house or a park without carrying something with you.
If I'm walking or on a bus and stopped by a cop who asks "Your papers, please," the first thing I would ask is "Why are you stopping me?" And if there was a good reason for the stop and I didn't have it with me, I'd just say "It's at home." Why should any more explanation than that be needed?
When you say "everyone" in Belgium carries the citizen's ID card "everywhere," I suspect that is an exaggeration. I certainly hope so.
As for the trucker being stopped, the problem was the ignorance of the "low-level functionaries," not his ID. They should have known it constituted legal residency status.
Would a national ID be better? Probably. As long as it did not contain too much sensitive information ON the card, and as long as you're not required to have it on your person at all times. If someone steals my VISA card, in many if not most cases, if they try to use it, they will be asked to show other ID such as a DL or to provide other identity info. The credit card issuer has my SSN, mother's maiden name, my address, DOB, etc., but that info is not all ON the card. Similarly, my DL does not have my SSN on it, even though the state has all my relevant info on file. If we are going to have a national ID, it should be done in a similar way, with the card itself not having much of that sensitive info on it.