Posted this before but it appears to have gone awol – wonder why? Try again
Keith:
"It is as if you know little and post without thinking what you are saying."
I'll try to avoid the tone of arrogant self-importance you have adopted here – apart from saying you often give the impression of having picked what little knowledge about Ireland from listening to Bernard Manning – there, that's off my chest.
My understanding of Irish politics comes diectly from family experience – a major part of most of my life, which fed an interest to know more – doesn't make me right by any means, but I have given some thought to it.
I have set my opinion as clear as I can, giving the facts as I know them; the undemocratic way partition was arrived at, the threat of invasion if the treaty had not been signed, the unequal situation between Catholic and Protestant situations, the violence against the Catholic minority, the persistent use of force by both the Unionists and the Brits to maintain the six counties……. You have chosen to ignore all, so I can only assume that you accept what I have said and find it acceptable.
You have persisted with you mantra – "have to go with the wishes of the Protestant majority" – so let's play it your way.
WHY?
It is a truism that political change is usually brought about by a handful of zealots pursuing their dreams, ideals, interests, whatever; so what have we got in N.I. A group of bowler-hatted, besashed fanatics making the running over the last 80 years – turn your telly on and you'll see them marching to Drumcree and down the Garvaghy Road if they get permission – a minority within a diminishing majority, within a huge majority (Ireland as a whole).
Any conceding to a foreign power of (using my earlier example) say the six Southern Counties of England would have to be with the agreement of Britain as a whole (despite your earlier claim of it being otherwise). You bizarrely described my American Civil War analogy as an example of my being a 'fascist bullyboy', then ignored my invitation to qualify your statement – the invitation is still open. The loss of territory to a foreign power carries with it serious implications: cultural, political, economic, security.... (this latter applies particularly to Ireland in the light of the Monoghan and Dublin bombings carried out by Loyalist terrorists almost certainly with the collusion of the British Security Forces – have you come across the Stevens report and its fate?). It seems to me that any decision to relinquish six counties to a foreign power has to be that of the country as a whole rathere than a group of self-interested and carefully selected fanatics.
So for the future well being of Ireland and the Irish as a whole, any such decision has to be that of all the people of Ireland and only after exhaustive debate, and agreement – this has yet to happen.
The ironic aspect to partition is that it was intended to be only a temporary measure, both by the British and the Irish Free State (want me to quote Lloyd George and Churchill on the matter?)
A bit nearer to home for you.
Don't the British people have a say in all this?
It is more or less accepted by all sides that if the British people were given a referendum on the after they would happily vote Northern Ireland out of the Union tomorrow. I seem to remember this is your stance ("Be glad to see the back of you", I think was how you summed it up – whoever 'you' is).
We used to attend the Forkhill Singing Weekend in South Armagh and often crossed the border to Dundalk at night for a meal by one of the 'unapproved' roads (without an established checkpoint).
On several occasions we would be stopped by a platoon of British soldiers, made up of young men, little more than children, all clutching powerful weapons in trembling hands; scared shitless of the situation they found themselves in.
We couldn't work out why most of them had Liverpool, or Newcastle, or Lowland Scots accents until we visited Lockerbie and saw on a beer-mat 'OUT OF WORK - JOIN THE ARMY AND LEARN A TRADE'.
They were young working-class lads from high unemployment areas, sent to fight, and possibly die for a Partitioned Ireland.
I come from such an area (Liverpool) and if any of my family were put in such a position I would want a say in why they were being asked to put their life on the line; wouldn't you, or have you got your nose stuck so far up the arse of the establishment that it doesn't matter to you?
So what have we got?
A decision to partition Ireland arrived at undemocratically though a manipulated border on behalf of Unionist fanatics who declared from the outset that they had no intention of considering the aspirations or well-being of one third of the population.
Over half a century of violence against that Catholic minority, supported by force of arms, with the ready assistance of various British Governments.
A prevailing state of insecurity where violence could break out at any time.
All on the behalf of the same type of fanatics who persecuted and terrorised the schoolchildren at Holy Cross in the Ardoyne area of Belfast - because they were the wrong religion.
And that's how it stands at present.
So - my logic?
My logic tells me that the situation of a partitioned country is bound to generate violence and conflict and the only way to rectify the situation is by an agreement reached together by all parties - the six counties, the Republic and Britain, and the unification of Ireland, as was originally intended.
"Peace has come about Jim."
My arse it has.
The Irish people are battle-weary at the present time; this may remain the case throughout this present generation, but future Irish men and women are bound to pick up the flag - they always have.
What's your solution - the maintaining the status quo - tell me if I've got that right?
"Please provide a source that shows clearly the clause...."
I said that the unification of Ireland remains an aim of all the major parties - I thought this to be the case, but to be doubly sure, I Wikied it - and sure enough....
"Good pleased to see that we have put that one to bed"
You've conveniently left out the rest of the sentence. I also said earlier that the Irish attitude to the six counties waxes and wanes. The Irish question has been with us for a long time and it hasn't yet gone away, nor will it while six counties are under the control of a foreign power.
"Live with it."
Or die with it - as the case may be!
Jim Carroll