The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #130131   Message #2937922
Posted By: Teribus
01-Jul-10 - 11:19 AM
Thread Name: BS: Bloody Sunday Report - AT LAST
Subject: RE: BS: Bloody Sunday Report - AT LAST
I have set my opinion as clear as I can, giving the facts as I know them; - Jim Carroll

Okay then let us examine those facts as you understand them.

1) the undemocratic way partition was arrived at,

Was the Irish Free State founded democratically? No it was not but we will let that pass, it falls into your apparent fervent belief in one law for the goose another for the gander. The process that established the two political entities of the Irish Free State and Northern Ireland was consultative and the border was established by agreement of all three Governments involved.

2) the threat of invasion if the treaty had not been signed,

What threat of invasion? Made by whom? What was going to be invaded? The Irish Free State? That defies logic if you acknowledge that at the time the British Government were trying their best to extricate themselves from Ireland, the whole premise is ludicrous - If you don't sign this treaty granting you independence we will invade you!! FFS its preposterous what planet are you living on?.

3) the unequal situation between Catholic and Protestant situations,

Please correct me if I am wrong here Jim, but the Catholic population of Northern Ireland has grown and has grown steadily since May 1921, whereas, the Protestant population in the Irish Free State and then latterly the Irish Republic has plummeted. Religious intolerance has existed and has been pandered to and practiced on both sides of the border for generations to such an extent that it has long been considered the norm. Thankfully those days and those generations are dying out

4) the violence against the Catholic minority,

It might come as a surprise to you Jim, but the founding of the Society of United Irishmen precedes the founding of the Orange Order by some five years, the latter being established to protect Protestant landowners, farmers and tradesmen from nationalist violence. On partition the first acts of violence perpetrated in Northern Ireland were by the IRA.

5) the persistent use of force by both the Unionists and the Brits to maintain the six counties…….

Examples of the use of such force please. At the same time and reflected by an accurate timeline list attacks by initiated by nationalists. As Northern Ireland has been autonomous since December 1922, the "Brits" have had very little to do with it. In the period now referred to as "The Troubles" the "Brits" got involved in order to sort out the inequalities you speak of. Had the nationalist paramilitaries stayed out of it and left it to the civil rights movement then roughly 3500 people would have kept their lives and 36,000 people would not have been injured.

Little challenge for you Jim, give me the name of one Republican, or Nationalist volunteer who gave their life to save the life of any man, woman or child throughout the entire period. I can give you the names of quite a few members of the emergency services and security services who did just that.

You have persisted with you mantra - "have to go with the wishes of the Protestant majority" - so let's play it your way.

WHY?


Could one relevant factor possibly be because they did actually form the majority of the population perhaps? Not your form of democracy I know Jim (where the demands of a radical but highly vocal minority threatening violence to achieve their ends must always prevail) but that is the general governing principle of a democracy that the will of the majority prevails.