Glad to see Jim Carroll on form again. My bollocks are generalised I suppose. I would hate to think they were my own....

Jim's assertion that songs that have "gone into the tradition" are therefore traditional songs intrigues me the most.

I am about to write a song. How do I "get it into the tradition?" Is there a form to fill out? I already know it doesn't have to be a particularly good song. After all, when Jim wrote "generalised bollocks" I thought he was referring to the genre, till I realised he meant me. Hey ho.

No, the problem is.... (The problem is Ray Padgett started this as a bit of fun and the gentlemen of the committee have waded in..)   

Sorry, where was I? Yes, the problem is... We are bandying with words that have loose meanings and therefore are subjective. Subject to what we perceive them as. That isn't a musical explanation, it is a language one. It fits though.

I started out as a teenager as a classical violinist. I played in youth orchestras and studied music. Now... the crusty but well meaning teacher found out I was playing traditional music as well, and genuinely thought that was a specific term meaning Russian folk tunes as collected and orchestrated by the likes of Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky etc.

You see, in his musical world, of which he was by any standard learned, that is what it meant.

To my youngest son, in his rock band, it means Dad's weird friends with beards, 15 year old cars and inability to mention beer without a diatribe on the best "real ales."

To me? it means a song or tune with no copyright to bother about.....

And you know what?   Whatever it means to Jim Carroll, it is as true as any of the above. But not more so... sorry Jim.